Moodle in English: Help needed in setting Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

Help needed in setting Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Susan Mangan - Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 3:32 AM

Hello

I would like the quiz 'Max Grade' ('grade' in mdl_quiz) to default to be the total point value of questions in the quiz (sumgrades).

The Admin options only allow a Max Grade to be set anywhere from No Grade to 100. This setting is often overlooked by our faculty and hence, their quiz results are skewed every so slightly (we default to 100 as this seems to be the most logical for those that completely miss that field).

We are using v. 1.9.6.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Susan Mangan - Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 3:57 AM

I'm revisiting this again. Now running 1.9.8.

I have very basic db and programming skills .. was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how I could accomplish this?

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Re: Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Itamar Tzadok - Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 4:51 AM

Not so much of a help but IMHO overlooking faculty should get over it. If you default to sum you are just shifting the problem to the other side, that is, to those who are happy with the default of 100.

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Re: Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Susan Mangan - Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 6:18 AM

Yes true - but it is highly unlikely there are many that really want a default of 100. Most want either a specific weighted total or the actual point value of their quiz. I just worry that faculty will miss this (as many have done in the past) and have their students' data skewed as a result. Just trying to minimize the potential for error as much as I can!

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Re: Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Itamar Tzadok - Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 7:39 AM

I hear you. I see many instructors do that. They have, for instance, one assignment 25% of the final grade, another 35% and a third 40%. So they grade the first on a 25-point scale, the second on a 35-point and the third on 40-point scale. I see how students react. It is more confusing than helping. Grading the assignments should be on a standard scale throughout whatever the weight of the assignment in the final grade is.

What's more saddening is that many instructors do not seem to require of themselves the same level of competence they require of their students, and this is probably because they are not really graded on their performance.

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Re: Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by ben reynolds - Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 6:03 PM

I find grades and grading very intimidating (I'm not a math major), but what about a totally different approach?

Set off an alert if the default value of 'Max Grade' is unchanged. "Do you really want the default value? This may skew your students' grades."

The value of alert vs. default is that the instructor is offered the chance to choose.

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Re: Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Susan Mangan - Thursday, July 29, 2010, 12:00 AM

Yes - that would most definitely solve the problem of it being left at the default value inadvertently, but why not just keep it simple and sum their quiz questions automatically. What is the actual expected behavior for Max Grade? If I was a teacher I would think, that like assignments, the max grade of the quiz would be the total sum of it's points' value. So why not just sum it in one easy step and let that be the default rather than have the Moodle Administrator choose a default that will more than likely not work for the majority. At least this way, the max grade is initially chosen by them by being the value of their own quiz questions. They can then proceed to skew away and change the total there or in the gradebook if they so choose ...

thoughtful

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Re: Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Itamar Tzadok - Thursday, July 29, 2010, 12:24 AM

That's exactly the problem I was trying to point out above. As a student doing an assignment and trying to figure out how I did so that I can improve my work 24.5/35 is not as clear as 70/100 even though both are 70%, right? If instructors can't handle the gradebook WM (which surely is the problem) they should do it in Excel and upload final grades manually.

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Re: Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Itamar Tzadok - Thursday, July 29, 2010, 12:12 AM

That already exists more or less. The edit page shows both the sum of marks in the quiz and the maximum grade. Surely it doesn't take a math major to observe a difference. Start failing instructors who cannot handle that and do not have a doctor's note and deduct it from their paycheck and you will see how performance improves.

All I'm trying to say is that there is so much work as it is getting Moodle to do cool stuff that in some things instructors should just try a bit harder and practice more.

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Re: Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Susan Mangan - Thursday, July 29, 2010, 12:44 AM

It exists ... in a non-functional sort of way mixed

I only think that it is far more logical for the sum to be the 'default' and not have an admin choose a default that doesn't work for most. I do agree with you Itamar in that instructors do sometimes need to take more responsibility in learning and using the system but I do like to try to make it a bit more intuitive for them in areas to minimize the potential for error - not so much implementing "cool stuff" cool

. Their job is to teach well and influence the lives of students. My job is to help them with the technology to accomplish that wink

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Re: Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Itamar Tzadok - Thursday, July 29, 2010, 1:20 AM

Precisely my point, Susan. You to the instructors is just like the instructors to the students.

Does "teach well" mean that when a student encounters a difficulty with an assignment the instructor simply adds the answer to the assignment? Does "influence the lives of students" mean that the best example of the right professional conduct the instructor can offer the students is "whenever you encounter a problem, stop doing what you do and wait until someone fixes it for you"? I think instructors should give students a bit more credit.

IMO it is far more logical that all activities share a common grading interface to being with, and activity specifics come only after.

Paradoxically perhaps, the more we put on the system for making it easier for us to take less responsibility, the less usable the system becomes.

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Re: Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Susan Mangan - Thursday, July 29, 2010, 1:39 AM

Forgot I was communicating with a philosophy major

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Re: Can you set Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Itamar Tzadok - Thursday, July 29, 2010, 1:50 AM

You know, philosophers don't appreciate being told they can improve their instruction and instructors don't appreciate being told they can improve their instruction philosophy. People in general just don't appreciate being told that they can improve. At the end of the day I'm on your side.

(Actually, my majors are math and computer science; philosophy is rather incidental and quite insignificant if taken in the modern narrow sense.

)

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Re: Help needed in setting Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Tim Hunt - Thursday, July 29, 2010, 12:25 AM

So, what exactly is the logic you are proposing? Is it:

"If, just before any change to the quiz (add/remove question, change question weight, etc), $quiz->grade is equal to $quiz->sumgrades, then after the change, automatically update $quiz->grade to the new value of $quiz->sumgrades."

($quiz->grade is the quiz 'Max Grade', $quiz->sumgrades is the sum of all the question grades.)

That almost works. The only problem is, suppose that $quiz->grade starts of set to 10, and that is what you want it to be set to, and then you add 20 questions, each worth 1 point, one at a time.

I suppose an alternative would be this:

"Allow $quiz->grade to be set to null. This means that whenever we want to use the value of $quiz->grade, we automatically use $quiz->sumgrades instead."

That would require a lot of changes to the code, but might be workable.

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Re: Help needed in setting Quiz Max Grade to Sum of Grades?

by Susan Mangan - Thursday, July 29, 2010, 12:54 AM

hmmm .....well, I can revisit my long lost programming skills and see how it goes thoughtful

Summer terms are good for things like this, thanks for the starter-logic

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