Hotpot (plugin)

Quizport vs. Lesson

 
Picture of Jeff Finnan
Quizport vs. Lesson
 
I have never run a lesson. When I started with Moodle, there were Hotpotatoes and Quizport was firing up. Does Quizport obviate the need for the lesson module? Pros, cons of one over the other?

Thanks,
Jeff
 
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Picture of Gordon Bateson
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Core developersParticularly helpful MoodlersPlugin developersTranslators

Here's my list for starters. It is probably biased wink

Similarities:

  • a collection of pages/quizzes which are presented to students one at a time
  • can branch to next page/quiz depending on previous page/quiz score
  • can offer students a menu of pages/quizzes from which students choose what to do next
  • can restrict access to students who have completed some previous Moodle activity
  • can branch to another Moodle activity depending on performance on this Lesson/QuizPort
  • mostly maintained without funding from Moodle HQ

Moderate Differences:

  • Branching capabilities are more sophisticated in QuizPort than in the Lesson module
  • reordering of pages/quizzes is more sophisticated in QuizPort than in the Lesson module
  • choice menus are more sophisticated in QuizPort than in the Lesson module

Big differences:

  • Contents are created and edited ...
    • Lesson: via Moodle interface
    • QuizPort: external authoring software
  • Contents are stored ...
    • Lesson: in Moodle's DB
    • QuizPort: in files on the internet

Chalk and Cheese:

  • Lesson module can use questions from Moodle's question bank
  • Lesson module can import from PowerPoint files
  • QuizPort allows embedding of multiple questions in a single quiz
  • QuizPort allows easy insertion of multimedia using [square bracket] notation
  • QuizPort module allows editing of settings for multiple quizzes and multiple QuizPort activities at once
In my view the above lists all stem from the fact that ...
  • QuizPort was designed administer externally authored educational content - that is it's raison-d'etre
  • QuizPort is a "version 2" system, so it attempts to learn from the successes and shortcomings of its predecessor, namely the HotPot module.
  • QuizPort was designed for Moodle 2.0, but the Lesson module, like the HotPot module, was designed for early Moodle 1.x and has been morphing ever since trying to keep up with the rapid change of Moodle Core.
kinds regards
Gordon
 
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Picture of Jeff Finnan
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
 
Gordon,

Thanks for the side-by-side comparison.

<<<Contents are stored ... QuizPort: in files on the internet>>>

I was going to ask at sometime if a set up QuizPort was stored anywhere in some future post. Since you mentioned it, I cannot figure out if a QuizPort, once made is stored somewhere. Is it?

<<<Chalk and Cheese>>>

First time I have run across this. What does it mean, particularly the cheese part? Where do you hail from?

Thanks again,
Jeff


 
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Mary Cooch
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Documentation writersMoodle Course Creator Certificate holdersMoodle HQParticularly helpful MoodlersTestersTranslators
Great comparison, Gordon. Jeff - maybe it's a UK thing? I always think of chalk and cheese as describing two things that are completely different yet often thought of together - my children, in fact are "like chalk and cheese". http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/chalk-and-cheese.html
 
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Picture of Glenys Hanson
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
 
Hi Gordon,

Just one thing that surprised me in your excellent comparison of Lesson and QuizPort:
  • Contents are stored ...
    • Lesson: in Moodle's DB
    • QuizPort: in files on the internet
If I use Hot Potatoes or TexToys files I've uploaded to to Moodle, aren't they in the Moodle database? In my local installation of Moodle I see a folder called "moodledata" with all my course files including Hot Potatoes inside. Am I not understanding something?

I know if I used Qedoc in QuizPort the files would be elsewhere on the internet.

A few other points about Lesson and QuizPort:
  • For both, they have a long and steep learning curve compared to the Hot Potatoes Module (though probably no worse than the Quiz, Database or Questionnaire Modules).
  • Lesson has a neat indicator of where a student is in a Lesson: a red line that moves across the bottom of the screen as the student progresses through the Lesson.
  • Through Hot Potatoes, TexToys and Qedoc, QuizPort provides a much wider selection of question types than Lesson.
  • The source files of Hot Potatoes and TexToys can be modified to create even more question types and also to customise the "look" of exercises.
  • Lesson is part of the Moodle "core". Some Moodle admins will not allow the installation of non core Modules, which excludes QuizPort.
  • For the same reason, QuizPort courses are excluded from the Cool Course Competition - at least for this year.
I'm biased, too. I only tried Lesson once or twice and found it "clunky".

Jeff, why don't you ask your question over on the Lesson Forum?

Cheers,
Glenys

 
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Mary Cooch
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Documentation writersMoodle Course Creator Certificate holdersMoodle HQParticularly helpful MoodlersTestersTranslators
Glenys I *think* (and this is an area where I am way out of my depth)but my moodle database Gordon means the database where all information is stored -MySQL or PHPmyadmin or something - you can view/delete users directly from there and it's also where certain "bits" of Moodle and the tables for the different modules are stored. Real live stuff like hotpotatoes files are stored in the appropriate moodledata folder, as you said (which is much easier for me to get my head around) but things like quiz questions aren't stored in that way; rather, they are kept in this mystical DB. So I think when Gordon said "on the internet" he meant the moodledata folders but that is not the same as the moodledatabase. (Having said that, it will all change in Moodle 2.0 anyway when you will no longer be able to see, find or upload files into moodledata directories as even these will be "coded" in)
 
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G. Grow
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
 
Mary's explanation sounds right to me. There is a big difference between data stored in the MySQL database and data stored in files inside the moodledata folder -- where an admin can see them like ordinary web files, and where you can copy, edit, update, etc., directly.

Also, QuizPort can actually access resources (e.g., Hot Potatoes quizzes) that are stored on the web, at a site different from your Moodle site. I'm still mulling over the implicatons of this capability. It's big and slightly scary.


 
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Picture of Glenys Hanson
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
 
Thanks Mary and Gerald, that's clearer to me now. Part of what I like about Moodle - you're learning all the time. Moodle 2 = lots more stuff to learn. big grin

Cheers,
Glenys
 
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Picture of Gordon Bateson
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Core developersParticularly helpful MoodlersPlugin developersTranslators
Hi Jim,

> I was going to ask at sometime if a set up QuizPort was stored anywhere ...
> ... I cannot figure out if a QuizPort, once made is stored somewhere. Is it?

Maybe yes, maybe no. It depends how you think about things.

Rather like a mini Moodle course, a single QuizPort activity is comprised of settings, content and results. Generally speaking the quiz content comes from files, and the settings and results are stored in the Moodle database.

A single file or setting or result won't do much or tell you much, but put together they take on a new significance. They become "a QuizPort" that means something to you and your students as an educational activity.

I wonder how you think about Hot Potatoes quizzes? Are they "stored somewhere"? What are about Moodle resources? Where are they stored?

Gordon
 
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Picture of Gordon Bateson
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Core developersParticularly helpful MoodlersPlugin developersTranslators
> Hi Jim,

Sorry, I meant Hi Jeff ... blush
 
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Picture of Gordon Bateson
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Core developersParticularly helpful MoodlersPlugin developersTranslators
Hi Mary,

> I *think* ... by moodle database Gordon means the database
> where all information is stored -MySQL or PHPmyadmin or something

That's about right, except that phpMyAdmin is not a database it is a database management tool. It lets you manipulate the MySQL database using your favorite browser.

> I think when Gordon said "on the internet" he meant the moodledata folders

Well, that's part of what I meant, because moodledata folders are accessible directly with a browser. But I also wanted to include *any* file (apart from those on your local PC) that you can access with your browser. It may be a file within your Moodle data folders, but it could equally well be some other file anywhere out there in cyberspace. If your browser can access it, then QuizPort can probably access it and so it can be used for the source of a QuizPort quiz. As Gerald this is a *BIG* idea.

regards
Gordon
 
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Picture of Jeff Finnan
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
 
Gordon,

<<< Hot Potatoes quizzes? Are they "stored somewhere"? >>>

As you subsequently discussed, yes in some moodledata folder. Databases are a little harder to envision conceptually. The main reason I asked was because I wondered if one could copy a QuizPort. Maybe I just should have asked that upfront. Let's say I rigged up some complicated QuizPort exercise with various conditions that I found to work well. Then I want to use it over and over again in the future. If the QuizPort had existed as a single file in a moodledata folder then copying it would be easy task for me. However, I would have to be mindful of all the quizzes, etc. contained within.

Later,
Jeff


 
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Picture of Gordon Bateson
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Core developersParticularly helpful MoodlersPlugin developersTranslators
Jeff,

> Databases are a little harder to envision conceptually.

If you are familiar with Excel ...
  • database = workbook
  • table = worksheet
  • record = row
  • field = column
  • value = cell
> I wondered if one could copy a QuizPort.

Sure, you can use Moodle's backup and restore scripts to copy single Moodle activities, including QuizPort, in this way.

One catch, the downloadable QuizPort zip file does not contain the backup and restore scripts. I will send them to you if you purchase a QuizPort license:
  • individual teacher license: $50
  • institution license: $300
If you would like to do that please send me a private email:
  • gordon at-sign kanazawa hyphen gu dot ac dot jp
regards
Gordon
 
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Picture of Jeff Finnan
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
 
<<<Sure, you can use Moodle's backup and restore scripts to copy single Moodle activities, including QuizPort, in this way.

One catch, the downloadable QuizPort zip file does not contain the backup and restore scripts. I will send them to you if you purchase a QuizPort license:>>>

Will look into and cogitate on this.

Thanks,
Jeff
 
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Picture of Jamie Zemran
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
 

" I always think of chalk and cheese as describing two things that are completely different"

Have you tried Roquefort?

 
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Think I am older now :)
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Documentation writersTesters
Hi Gordon,
Wow. Made my post before reading the entire thread here first. I guess I will take a closer look at QuizPort. I did look in MoodleDocs and am still sort of clueless about it. smile

Are you saying QuizPort is adaptive on the page level, as well as the "task" (aka module or collection of pages) level? I do not find conditional activities nor dependency settings to be very robust in an "adaptive" context.

Best Chris
 
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Picture of Gordon Bateson
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Core developersParticularly helpful MoodlersPlugin developersTranslators
Hi Chris,
thanks for your post.

> No. It appears that QuizPort can only chain tasks .
> As you point out, that is one function in Lesson.

> Lesson not only can chain individual concepts (pages)
> but also offers adaptive navigation on the page level
> based upon individual student choices.
> Neither QuizPort nor Quiz have this wiki like feature.

No. You have not grasped what QuizPort can do. The pre-conditions and post-conditions of QuizPort offer precisely this kind of "adaptive navigation". Try it - you'll like it. And while you are there, you will appreciate the ability to view and edit settings on multiple quizzes (=pages in Lesson-land). Not only that but you can edit settings on multiple QuizPort activities from a single page. Neither Lesson nor Wiki have these very useful features.

Gordon
 
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Picture of Gordon Bateson
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
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Chris,

> Are you saying QuizPort is adaptive on the page level,
> as well as the "task" (aka module or collection of pages) level?

Yes. It is very adaptive at the page level. That is one of QuizPort's most attractive features. At the activity module level, QuizPort operates much like the Lesson module; it allows dependancy on the grade of one other Moodle activity, and allows redirection to another Moodle activity, once a QuizPort activity is completed.

Gordon
 
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Picture of carol r
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
 
It sounds like QuizPort does a lot of useful things that we've been looking for. A couple of questions:
  • How does one get the QuizPort Module. It seems that there is a charge? Is it a one-time charge? or is it sold on a subscription model?
  • I read that QuizPort will be the replacement for Hot Potatoes in Moodle 2.0. Does that mean that HotPotatoes will no longer work in Moodle 2.0?
  • Will previously created HotPotatoes exercises work in Moodle 2.0?
Thanks for your help.
 
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Picture of Glenys Hanson
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
 

Hi Carol,

  • There is no charge for using QuizPort itself but it you want it to be included in the the backup and restore files of a Moodle course there is a one-timecharge. Gordon explained earlier in this discussion,

    Sure, you can use Moodle's backup and restore scripts to copy single Moodle activities, including QuizPort, in this way.

    One catch, the downloadable QuizPort zip file does not contain the backup and restore scripts. I will send them to you if you purchase a QuizPort license:

    • individual teacher license: $50
    • institution license: $300

    If you would like to do that please send me a private email:

    • gordon at-sign kanazawa hyphen gu dot ac dot jp
  • For your last two points, I think this discussion makes it clear: Moodle 2 / TaskChain schedule that previously created Hot Potatoes exercises will automatically be transformed into QuizPort/TaskChain exercises and will continue to work in Moodle 2.0.

(Edited by Gordon Bateson - original submission Sunday, 3 January 2010, 09:36 PM)

 
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Think I am older now :)
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Documentation writersTesters
Hi Gordon and QuizPort fans,
I decided it was a snow day (we got 16 inches, 40 cm last night) and had time to make a contribution to MoodleDocs before bringing in wood and shoveling a path out to the cars.

I reformatted QuizPort module and added information from the introduction and structure pages of the manual. The manual was very enlightening and straight forward in describing the functionality of QuizPort.

Since I was confuzeled, about the name, I also created a page for TaskChain module which redirects people to the QuizPort module page.

I know a rose by any other name is still a rose but what is/will be the MoodleName for QuizPort-TaskChain? And why the name change? Is one going to be QuizPort Pro and the other QuizPort lite (contributed module)?

Re Page level: I will need to do some more research on this. If a quiz in a unit can be single question webpage, where different answers get different scores and automatically jump to another resource/webpage located in the unit, then I will agree.

I see the use and the practicality of using something like QuizPort-TaskChain.

Best Chris

 
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Picture of Gordon Bateson
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Core developersParticularly helpful MoodlersPlugin developersTranslators

Wow Chris - you had quite a day! Thanks for beefing up the QuizPort documentation approve

> what is/will be the MoodleName for QuizPort-TaskChain?
> And why the name change?

The module *is* called QuizPort, but it *will be* called "TaskChain". There are several reasons for changing the name:

  • "QuizPort" is too similar to "Quiz" as a name for a module in standard Moodle.
  • "QuizPort" doesn't mean anything to someone who doesn't already know what it means. In other words, it requires explanation. On the other hand, "TaskChain" probably means something - to most teachers anyway - without explanation. Therefore "TaskChain" is more suitable as a module name in standard Moodle.
  • "QuizPort" was intended to be a catchy name for a commercial product that could have its own domain name and pay its own way. However, I no longer think that the module needs to have such a separate identity.

Maybe there is another question in the back of you mind, namely: "Why not just continue to call it the HotPot module?"

  • Firstly, the new module handles other types of interactive exercise and also static HTML pages too, so the name "HotPot" no longer correctly describes everything the module can do.
  • Secondly, using a different name emphasizes to people that it is a significantly different module. It does everything the HotPot module does, but it does a whole lot more besides.

all the best
Gordon

 
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Think I am older now :)
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Documentation writersTesters
Thanks Gordon,
That answers my questions and I guess the one I didn't think of smile

I did not see a "Development:TaskChain module" page, which might be useful in compiling your answers and thoughts about TaskChain-HotPot going forward in Moodle 2.0 . As far as the name goes, I usually let the deeper thinkers concerning Moodle schema decide those things. As a descriptive name, TaskChain is excellent.

I have not been earning my pen due to other kinds of Moodle commitments in the last 3 months. It was a pleasure to cut, paste and reformat a completely new subject, plus do it in MoodleDocs. And yet still have time to physically move two weeks of heating wood closer to our Solo 40, rake snow off the roofs and break a trail in the woods. with my trusty dog. Indeed, that was an excellent day!


Best Chris


 
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Picture of Jeff Finnan
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
 
<<<I did look in MoodleDocs and am still sort of clueless about it.>>>>

Chris,

QuizPort is so rich that it is hard to get up and running the first time. The best place I found was to listen and watch Gordon walk through it at a Moodle Developers online meeting.

He brought in this HotPot Post

That way I made my first QuizPort was to watch Gordon's part above and back track on it several times as I made mine. The conference video does some strange things when you go backwards. I have captured Gordon's part and uploaded it here

Later,
Jeff
 
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Think I am older now :)
Re: Quizport vs. Lesson
Documentation writersTesters
Hi Jeff,
I responded in length over in the Lesson forum. But I thought I would suprise the community with a short pithy answer here. smile I have not used QuizPort, so we are the blind leading the blind.

Does QuizPort obviate the need for the lesson module?

No. It appears that QuizPort can only chain tasks . As you point out, that is one function in Lesson.

In addition, Lesson not only can chain individual concepts (pages) but also offers adaptive navigation on the page level based upon individual student choices. Neither QuizPort nor Quiz have this wiki like feature.

Best Chris

PS decided to leave this after reading Gordon's side by side.
 
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