Is there any plans to include 'Reply by email' functionality to the forum module?
We are hoping to move to Moodle communities soon, however many of our users are on Email distribution lists and would prefer to continue communicating this way.
I know of no way to truly "link" email lists to Moodle forums. NOTE: simply sending out emails per forum posts and being able to reply to said forum post via email does NOT link an email list to a forum. There's more to it then that. Among other things, email list subscribers need to see forum posts as emails and for forum readers to see emails as forum posts, all in a "transparent" fashion.
A little more background (which may be a bit off-topic here, please forgive me if so)...
I believe that the "linking" of email lists to forums (particularly *existing* email list communities that have been running for a long time) will be an increasingly-important capability for communications systems for a long time to come.
I have been participating in the ongoing development of Mail2Forum, aka M2F, at http://m2f.sourceforge.net . This project "links" (synchronizes, mirrors, etc) phpBB (see http://phpbb.com) forums to any external email list (much like GNUMailman can link its email lists to Usenet newsgroups).
However, since Moodle has its own, native, "proprietary" forum module, it can not leverage this development from the phpBB community (or any of the vbulletin.com community, the other "other big forum software" provider). While I do find it powerful how nicely-integrated the Moodle forums are with the rest of Moodle, I think they lack in features, and they also have the problem of not leveraging the forum-communities development as per above.
In short, if there's one area where I wish Moodle would "break out" it's module to have it rely on other software it is forums. I would be particularly interested in the API stuff being developed in phpBB 2.2.
Alas, this may be a massive project, so it may never be feasible. Furthermore, it would remain to be seen if the designers could tightly-couple an "external" forum with its courses as well as it does now...and if they can't, I suspect such an effort would be frowned upon.
-Matt
A little more background (which may be a bit off-topic here, please forgive me if so)...
I believe that the "linking" of email lists to forums (particularly *existing* email list communities that have been running for a long time) will be an increasingly-important capability for communications systems for a long time to come.
I have been participating in the ongoing development of Mail2Forum, aka M2F, at http://m2f.sourceforge.net . This project "links" (synchronizes, mirrors, etc) phpBB (see http://phpbb.com) forums to any external email list (much like GNUMailman can link its email lists to Usenet newsgroups).
However, since Moodle has its own, native, "proprietary" forum module, it can not leverage this development from the phpBB community (or any of the vbulletin.com community, the other "other big forum software" provider). While I do find it powerful how nicely-integrated the Moodle forums are with the rest of Moodle, I think they lack in features, and they also have the problem of not leveraging the forum-communities development as per above.
In short, if there's one area where I wish Moodle would "break out" it's module to have it rely on other software it is forums. I would be particularly interested in the API stuff being developed in phpBB 2.2.
Alas, this may be a massive project, so it may never be feasible. Furthermore, it would remain to be seen if the designers could tightly-couple an "external" forum with its courses as well as it does now...and if they can't, I suspect such an effort would be frowned upon.
-Matt
Sure we can leverage email-to-forum technology, especially if it's in PHP. The hard bit is piping/parsing the email, not inserting it into a forum. Moodle mail already has headers now that include course/forum/post information which should help.
Just show me something that actually exists and works with all mail clients and all users!
Just show me something that actually exists and works with all mail clients and all users!
Another point is that some users will not realise that they are sending an answer to a public forum instead of to a privat person who sends an email. (It happens already with the current forum-reminder.)
The headers seem to carry through pretty well in a quick test I did today, so determining the place to insert the mail should not be too hard assuming all emailers retain the headers like Mozilla does.
The main issue remaining is this: how can incoming email be authenticated? Email addresses are easy to forge ... I'd be interested to see how this m2f solves that one.
The main issue remaining is this: how can incoming email be authenticated? Email addresses are easy to forge ... I'd be interested to see how this m2f solves that one.
Ger Tielemans writes:
Another point is that some users will not realise that they are sending an answer to a public forum instead of to a privat person who sends an email. (It happens already with the current forum-reminder.)
Assuming I understand your point correctly (please correct me if I do not), I have found this to be handled well with email list managers like GNU Mailman. Each email list has an option to format the headers such that a reply to a broadcast email message is addressed to the single author of the original email, to the entire email list, or maybe even something else.
The main idea: if one "modularly" links an email list with a web forum, then let the email list handle the emails, the forum handle the posts, and synchronize the data msgs from the 2 delivery mechanisms on the "backend" separate from the user. This (theoretically, at least) leverages the power and strengths of each mechanism in its focus area (email for email lists, forum posts for web forums).
Martin writes:
The main issue remaining is this: how can incoming email be authenticated? Email addresses are easy to forge ... I'd be interested to see how this m2f solves that one.
I'm interested to see what kind of "email authentication" you mean here, and maybe go through a few scenarios.
For example, my Moodle profile's email address is moodle.org@mengland.net (anything going to @mengland.net gets sent to me) as a convenient email-filtering mechanism in my MUA (mail user agent like Outlook or Eudora). However, most of my From: and Reply-To: headers still get sent out with a different address (something-else@mengland.net...I don't put the real address here for fear of web-crawling spam miners).
Do we want to "authenticate" that any emails/posts sent/made to the Moodle "conversational space" (be it email lists, web forums, newsgroups, etc...because they can all theoretically be linked) have an author that reads moodle.org@mengland.net instead of something-else@mengland.net? This part is probably relatively easy to do. Email lists already do it.
And/or, do we want to verify that emails with From: and Reply-To:'s (or any similar headers) are truly coming from me, a la PGP security or something of that nature that will verify my authenticity via some sort of key...or some other implementation? This seems rather difficult, given that I suspect this would require client-side (as in MUA) configuration changes for authentication not to mention a lot of hand-shaking between server and client mechanisms (if I understand things correctly, which I may very well not--I have not developed these kinds of software systems before, I'm simply guessing as to what would be needed).
And/or some other scenario(s)? Maybe I do not have a firm understanding on this point?
-Matt
Another point is that some users will not realise that they are sending an answer to a public forum instead of to a privat person who sends an email. (It happens already with the current forum-reminder.)
Assuming I understand your point correctly (please correct me if I do not), I have found this to be handled well with email list managers like GNU Mailman. Each email list has an option to format the headers such that a reply to a broadcast email message is addressed to the single author of the original email, to the entire email list, or maybe even something else.
The main idea: if one "modularly" links an email list with a web forum, then let the email list handle the emails, the forum handle the posts, and synchronize the data msgs from the 2 delivery mechanisms on the "backend" separate from the user. This (theoretically, at least) leverages the power and strengths of each mechanism in its focus area (email for email lists, forum posts for web forums).
Martin writes:
The main issue remaining is this: how can incoming email be authenticated? Email addresses are easy to forge ... I'd be interested to see how this m2f solves that one.
I'm interested to see what kind of "email authentication" you mean here, and maybe go through a few scenarios.
For example, my Moodle profile's email address is moodle.org@mengland.net (anything going to @mengland.net gets sent to me) as a convenient email-filtering mechanism in my MUA (mail user agent like Outlook or Eudora). However, most of my From: and Reply-To: headers still get sent out with a different address (something-else@mengland.net...I don't put the real address here for fear of web-crawling spam miners).
Do we want to "authenticate" that any emails/posts sent/made to the Moodle "conversational space" (be it email lists, web forums, newsgroups, etc...because they can all theoretically be linked) have an author that reads moodle.org@mengland.net instead of something-else@mengland.net? This part is probably relatively easy to do. Email lists already do it.
And/or, do we want to verify that emails with From: and Reply-To:'s (or any similar headers) are truly coming from me, a la PGP security or something of that nature that will verify my authenticity via some sort of key...or some other implementation? This seems rather difficult, given that I suspect this would require client-side (as in MUA) configuration changes for authentication not to mention a lot of hand-shaking between server and client mechanisms (if I understand things correctly, which I may very well not--I have not developed these kinds of software systems before, I'm simply guessing as to what would be needed).
And/or some other scenario(s)? Maybe I do not have a firm understanding on this point?
-Matt
Simple scenario: a student sends an email to your course with return address set as matt@mengland.net (say) ... it gets parsed and put on the forum as a post from you containing all kinds of mischief.
So yes, there needs to be something clever there security-wise (probably involving keys) before email-to-forum can be considered in most educational situations. I don't have any specific ideas about what would work here. One tiny thought is that the forum posts would have an icon indicating their source.
(by the way, it's OK to post email addresses here, they are automatically obfuscated)
So yes, there needs to be something clever there security-wise (probably involving keys) before email-to-forum can be considered in most educational situations. I don't have any specific ideas about what would work here. One tiny thought is that the forum posts would have an icon indicating their source.
(by the way, it's OK to post email addresses here, they are automatically obfuscated)
Hi Martin,
I'm probably not the only one that would like to know the mechanism for automatic obfuscation. This is obviously site-wide, would you mind letting us know how you're doing this so that we may add this to our sites? It's easy to do one address at a time with a script but it's the automatic and site-wide part that I'd like to have on my Moodle site.
Thanks
I'm probably not the only one that would like to know the mechanism for automatic obfuscation. This is obviously site-wide, would you mind letting us know how you're doing this so that we may add this to our sites? It's easy to do one address at a time with a script but it's the automatic and site-wide part that I'd like to have on my Moodle site.
Thanks
It's a Filter in the standard distribution. 
Thanks Martin.
Mike's to blame for that one!
Thanks for the filter Mike.Thanks for hosting the file and telling me where to find it Martin.
That is simply fantastic.
-- Art
Forgive my ignorance, but isn't it enough to verify that the sender's email address is the same as the one in the user's Moodle profile?
Not really, forging mail headers is pretty easy to do. Have you looked at where your spam is coming from, for example? Also, many people will be sending mail with addresses that are different to the one in their profile so that's not even reliable.
I may sound a bit paranoid about security here, but these things do need to be addressed earlier rather than later.
I may sound a bit paranoid about security here, but these things do need to be addressed earlier rather than later.
No, I don't think this is paranoid at all - you're absolutely right about it.
Another thing, though, about the multiple email addresses. Does this have to be taken into account? Most mailing list (at least those that I know) require people to always use the same email when posting. I think yahoo groups, which has a mail-to-forum function, also requires mail to be sent from one address only.
Another thing, though, about the multiple email addresses. Does this have to be taken into account? Most mailing list (at least those that I know) require people to always use the same email when posting. I think yahoo groups, which has a mail-to-forum function, also requires mail to be sent from one address only.
Hi Przemyslaw,
This rule (of whether or not non-list-subscribers can send email to an email list...if that is what you mean?) is change-able/programmable in most email list managers, including my favorite, GNU Mailman. You can change the rule such that non-subscribers (or subscribers with different email addrs) can email to the list. May email list managers are quite flexible in this and many other ways.
By the way: Yahoo Groups is the *only* working flavor of a mail-to-forum mechanism in public existince (that I know of, anyway). Unfortunately, it is quite insufficient for many communities, hence there are a lot of Yahoo Groups communities/administrators watching the progress of M2F ( http://m2f.sourceforge.net ) so that they can their communities to a phpBB forum.
Also note that GNU Mailman (and probably other email list management mechanisms) have email-list-to-usenet-newsgroup "link" mechanisms as well.
FYI: M2F is designed to link phpBB with most any email list manager software/system. It has quite a simple interface with the email list.
-Matt
This rule (of whether or not non-list-subscribers can send email to an email list...if that is what you mean?) is change-able/programmable in most email list managers, including my favorite, GNU Mailman. You can change the rule such that non-subscribers (or subscribers with different email addrs) can email to the list. May email list managers are quite flexible in this and many other ways.
By the way: Yahoo Groups is the *only* working flavor of a mail-to-forum mechanism in public existince (that I know of, anyway). Unfortunately, it is quite insufficient for many communities, hence there are a lot of Yahoo Groups communities/administrators watching the progress of M2F ( http://m2f.sourceforge.net ) so that they can their communities to a phpBB forum.
Also note that GNU Mailman (and probably other email list management mechanisms) have email-list-to-usenet-newsgroup "link" mechanisms as well.
FYI: M2F is designed to link phpBB with most any email list manager software/system. It has quite a simple interface with the email list.
-Matt
Actually, I didn't mean that rule (of whether or not non-list-subscribers can send email to an email list) - what I had in mind was how to recognize a user if the sender is a subscriber of the list.
When we compare Moodle with email lists we can see the following analogy:
- lists may be closed to members only, or open to anyone
- a Moodle site or course may or may not allow guest access
The difference is that if guest access is allowed in a Moodle course, guests cannot post to a forum. To be consistent, the same limitation should be applied to forum posts arriving in email.
What I meant was that if the M2F mechanism was to be built into Moodle, it could be done in the following way:
- If an email is sent to a forum from an address which appears on an existing user's profile -> it should be published in the forum under the name of that user.
- If an email is sent to a forum from an address which cannot be matched with an existing user's profile -> it should be rejected.
The point I was trying to make was: do we need to account for users sending posts to forums from email accounts other than that in their user's profile? I posted it as my thought re: Martin's concern:
Also, many people will be sending mail with addresses that are
different to the one in their profile so that's not even reliable.
Hi Przemyslaw,
The difference is that if guest access is allowed in a Moodle course, guests cannot post to a forum.
Maybe not in some forums, but I know that phpBB forums can be configured to allow guest posts.
However, I don't think this point changes the crux of your above point which appears to be...
If an email is sent to a forum from an address which appears on an existing user's profile -> it should be published in the forum under the name of that user.
If an email is sent to a forum from an address which cannot be matched with an existing user's profile -> it should be rejected.
I believe that a good, mature, full-featured M2F mechanism should support this scenario as well as be change-able to do other things.
The point I was trying to make was: do we need to account for users sending posts to forums from email accounts other than that in their user's profile?
I think so. Again, I would consider this a configurable option.
I posted it as my thought re: Martin's concern:
Also, many people will be sending mail with addresses that are different to the one in their profile so that's not even reliable.
Yes, that would seem to be an issue, probably with different priorities for different community/site "values."
For what it's worth, I think Martin's identity-authentication requirements would override any "From:" header email address (probably by using something analogous to PGP keys).
I hope this note addresses your points?
-Matt
Simple scenario: a student sends an email to your course with return address set as matt@mengland.net (say) ... it gets parsed and put on the forum as a post from you containing all kinds of mischief.
I'd interested to know how other mailing-list apps (Mailman, Lyris, Majordomo) handle this situation. AFAIK they would happily accept a spoofed From: address, its the content of the email that might be stopped by a spam filter.
The posts (replies) send by email could be authenticated if they carried a "token" linking (joining) the reply to the post it is replying to.
Think about a token computed from the date, from the post id (the post you are replying to). The token is distributed in every email message. Only if the message comes from the right address and carry the right token would be posted to the forum.
Hi, I have just subscribed and am finding my way around to see what Moodle does, so please forgive me if I am taking this question off track.
I have used both FirstClass and WebCT and I was wondering if Moodle does (or is it possible to do) offer an opportunity to cc a message to a forum to an independent email address?
I ask this question because it was possible in FirstClass, but my current WebCT platform does not have this ability.
I run online doctoral seminars and we used to encourage our students to cc their responses, when appropriate, to their supervisor who did not take part in the seminar.
I see that I can email myself a copy of my own post, so that in itself might be able to be used by our students to forward their message on to their supervisor.
Cheers
Heather
I have used both FirstClass and WebCT and I was wondering if Moodle does (or is it possible to do) offer an opportunity to cc a message to a forum to an independent email address?
I ask this question because it was possible in FirstClass, but my current WebCT platform does not have this ability.
I run online doctoral seminars and we used to encourage our students to cc their responses, when appropriate, to their supervisor who did not take part in the seminar.
I see that I can email myself a copy of my own post, so that in itself might be able to be used by our students to forward their message on to their supervisor.
Cheers
Heather
Did this discussion go dead or move somewhere else? I think the feature would be very useful. Are there any message boards that allow you to do this?
I'm asking the same question. I do see this feature request on the bug tracker, but it doesn't seem that anything has happened with it... am I right?
Here is the feature request on the tracker: "Unresolved"
Me too... I think the feature would be very useful!
Thanks for raising this issue. I voted for this feature in the tracker.
It looks like someone did some planning for posting by email a couple summers ago.
It looks like someone did some planning for posting by email a couple summers ago.
This is a key functionality that our company would love to have -- it would drastically facilitate and catalyse the uptake of Moodle in our organisation (and many others I imagine as well).
Thanks Prof Boy for the voting link -- I've voted too, and strongly encourage everyone to voted for this feature in the tracker.
Cheers,
E
Thanks Prof Boy for the voting link -- I've voted too, and strongly encourage everyone to voted for this feature in the tracker.
Cheers,
E