Hello Gordon,
I've noticed that you can specify a Resource as a Next activity after a QuizPort Unit, but not as a Previous Activity. I suppose this is because a score has to be specified for a Previous Activity. I would like to be able to specify a Resource as a Previous Activity and also to specify an Activity as one without necessarily requiring a specific score (as for Pre-conditions). Am I asking for a lot?
Cheers,
Glenys
Hi Glenys
comment-allez vous?
It is an interesting idea to use a Resource as a Previous Activity.
Currently QuizPort checks the previous activities in the Moodle gradebook, and since Resources don't appear in the grade book, they are not allowed as previous activities for QuizPorts.
However, I can see why you might want to prevent access to a QuizPort until a student has looked at a Resource, however cursorily. Also, if we don't allow QuizPort to use Resources as previous activities because they can never be in the Moodle gradebook, then perhaps for the same reason we shouldn't allow Wikis, or Forums without scoring, or other activities without scoring.
Perhaps what we are really saying is, we require the conditions on previous activity for a Quizport to be based not only on a grade in the Moodle gradebook but also whether that activity has been in some way "completed".
The following link is a thread connected to this idea. It discusses how to indicate on the main page whether various types of activity are "complete":
As can be seen on the above thread, deciding on whether an activity has been completed requires special code depending on the activity type. This is a lot more cumbersome than simply looking in the gradebook.
So I am just mulling over whether we should allow Resources to be an exception, or whether that will open the floodgates for other kinds of Moodle activity to also be exceptions that are considered "completed" if certain activity-type-dependant conditions are met.
I am especially wondering about ...
...
Gordon
comment-allez vous?
It is an interesting idea to use a Resource as a Previous Activity.Currently QuizPort checks the previous activities in the Moodle gradebook, and since Resources don't appear in the grade book, they are not allowed as previous activities for QuizPorts.
However, I can see why you might want to prevent access to a QuizPort until a student has looked at a Resource, however cursorily. Also, if we don't allow QuizPort to use Resources as previous activities because they can never be in the Moodle gradebook, then perhaps for the same reason we shouldn't allow Wikis, or Forums without scoring, or other activities without scoring.
Perhaps what we are really saying is, we require the conditions on previous activity for a Quizport to be based not only on a grade in the Moodle gradebook but also whether that activity has been in some way "completed".
The following link is a thread connected to this idea. It discusses how to indicate on the main page whether various types of activity are "complete":
As can be seen on the above thread, deciding on whether an activity has been completed requires special code depending on the activity type. This is a lot more cumbersome than simply looking in the gradebook.
So I am just mulling over whether we should allow Resources to be an exception, or whether that will open the floodgates for other kinds of Moodle activity to also be exceptions that are considered "completed" if certain activity-type-dependant conditions are met.
I am especially wondering about ...
- Chat
- Choice
- Data
- Forum
- Glossary
- Journal
- Questionnaire
- Resource
- Survey
- Wiki
- 3rd-party modules
...Gordon
I may be thinking of this in a simpler way, but one common approach to instruction is to present some material to a student, followed by a graded exercise to practice it.
So if you can implement only one of the above list, why not start with a resource -- such as an html page on which the instructor presents a lesson or crucial information or a prompt?
Also, would this work as a backward approach? -- Make the desired "precondition for Quiz 2" the postcondition of a quiz 1 -- even if quiz 1 is a dummy quiz.
That way the student completes quiz 1, then jumps to a resource page, at the bottom of which QuizPort has added its "continue" button. Set up that resource to jump to the next quiz as its postcondition.
The postcondition resource of quiz 1 then becomes the precondition resource of quiz 2.
I think this is what I've done on Gordon's server in " Test w html files between quizzes-GGrow" -- at least for a simple resource like an html page.
So if you can implement only one of the above list, why not start with a resource -- such as an html page on which the instructor presents a lesson or crucial information or a prompt?
Also, would this work as a backward approach? -- Make the desired "precondition for Quiz 2" the postcondition of a quiz 1 -- even if quiz 1 is a dummy quiz.
That way the student completes quiz 1, then jumps to a resource page, at the bottom of which QuizPort has added its "continue" button. Set up that resource to jump to the next quiz as its postcondition.
The postcondition resource of quiz 1 then becomes the precondition resource of quiz 2.
I think this is what I've done on Gordon's server in " Test w html files between quizzes-GGrow" -- at least for a simple resource like an html page.
Ah yes, but Gerald I think when you talk about "resource page" you mean an html page inserted as a "quiz" into a QuizPort unit, whereas when Glenys talks about a "Resource" she means a Resource activity accessible directly from a Moodle course page.
You discussion is interesting but it is terms of moving between "quizzes" within a single QuizPort. Glenys' was asking about something else - I think!
Glenys is asking about having access to the QuizPort activity itself being dependant on the completion of another Moodle activity, such as a Moodle Resource, that does not have an entry in the Moodle gradebook.
I was originally going to suggest to Glenys that she set up her Resource as the entry page or the first "quiz" of a QuizPort. But doing so would make it slightly more difficult for students find the resource later, so I could imagine situations when the teacher would want to keep the Resource separate from the QuizPort.
Gordon
You discussion is interesting but it is terms of moving between "quizzes" within a single QuizPort. Glenys' was asking about something else - I think!
Glenys is asking about having access to the QuizPort activity itself being dependant on the completion of another Moodle activity, such as a Moodle Resource, that does not have an entry in the Moodle gradebook.
I was originally going to suggest to Glenys that she set up her Resource as the entry page or the first "quiz" of a QuizPort. But doing so would make it slightly more difficult for students find the resource later, so I could imagine situations when the teacher would want to keep the Resource separate from the QuizPort.
Gordon
The resource page (let's assume it's a single html page) could be used in two different places.
I am basing this workaround on the understanding that a single object (quiz, resource) that is stored in the course/site files, can be applied more than once in a course, with different settings each time, because the settings are not stored with the object but with the QuizPort that is applying it.
Does this sound right? I've been doing something close to this.
-- Gerald Grow
Post it on the Front Page for students to review any time.
Then, inside a QuizPort, start with a Placeholder Quiz ("Are you ready?-- Yes,No"), whose postcondition is the resource page (entered here in the Quizport like a second object, applied differently than the first time).
At the bottom of this iteration of the resource, QuizPort will place a "continue" button , and the resource (in this QuizPort) can be post-conditioned to lead to the quiz that follows. That way, the resource can be a precondition for the quiz that follows -- AND the resource can be freely available on the Front Page.
Then, inside a QuizPort, start with a Placeholder Quiz ("Are you ready?-- Yes,No"), whose postcondition is the resource page (entered here in the Quizport like a second object, applied differently than the first time).
At the bottom of this iteration of the resource, QuizPort will place a "continue" button , and the resource (in this QuizPort) can be post-conditioned to lead to the quiz that follows. That way, the resource can be a precondition for the quiz that follows -- AND the resource can be freely available on the Front Page.
I am basing this workaround on the understanding that a single object (quiz, resource) that is stored in the course/site files, can be applied more than once in a course, with different settings each time, because the settings are not stored with the object but with the QuizPort that is applying it.
For example, a quiz can be used in one Quizport for practice, with unlimited attempts permitted, and recording only the highest score.
In another place, that same quiz can appear another QuizPort, with only one attempt permitted -- used as a review to indicate how well a student remembered the material, and to determine, later in the course, whether the student needs to go back and review.
In another place, that same quiz can appear another QuizPort, with only one attempt permitted -- used as a review to indicate how well a student remembered the material, and to determine, later in the course, whether the student needs to go back and review.
Does this sound right? I've been doing something close to this.
-- Gerald Grow
Aha, yes I see what you mean Gerald. Sorry, I didn't quite grasp this point before.
An html file from the course "Files" area could be displayed both as a Resource on the Moodle course page, and as a plain html "quiz" within a QuizPort. If the content of the html file was changed, the changes would be reflected in both places. That would work well.
Glenys, what sort of Resource did you have in mind?
An html file from the course "Files" area could be displayed both as a Resource on the Moodle course page, and as a plain html "quiz" within a QuizPort. If the content of the html file was changed, the changes would be reflected in both places. That would work well.
Glenys, what sort of Resource did you have in mind?
Hi Gordon and Gerald,
Your idea of a pseudoquiz, Gerald, is a brilliant solution to one of my problems: I just want students to read a text and listen to a recording before doing exercises on it. So I've put it in a JQuiz (all the text + the player in the instructions field) and just one question: Do you want to continue? It's perfectly integrated into QuizPort now.
I wanted to force them to stay for a certain time on the pseudoquiz (to stop them just zipping through) but I haven't worked out how. If I select a Time delay at the end of the quiz, all they can see while being obliged to wait is their score. It's different in JCloze, there they can continue to see the exercise. There is a way to set a maximum time limit, how abut a minimum time limit?
The other Resource I wanted to set as a Previous Activity is the web page containing the instructions (as you know, a certain number of students just don't read them). I don't want to make the page a pseudoquiz inside QuizPort for two reasons:
Cheers,
Glenys
Your idea of a pseudoquiz, Gerald, is a brilliant solution to one of my problems: I just want students to read a text and listen to a recording before doing exercises on it. So I've put it in a JQuiz (all the text + the player in the instructions field) and just one question: Do you want to continue? It's perfectly integrated into QuizPort now.
I wanted to force them to stay for a certain time on the pseudoquiz (to stop them just zipping through) but I haven't worked out how. If I select a Time delay at the end of the quiz, all they can see while being obliged to wait is their score. It's different in JCloze, there they can continue to see the exercise. There is a way to set a maximum time limit, how abut a minimum time limit?
The other Resource I wanted to set as a Previous Activity is the web page containing the instructions (as you know, a certain number of students just don't read them). I don't want to make the page a pseudoquiz inside QuizPort for two reasons:
- it seems very strange to give them a score just for reading the instructions,
- as you imagined, Gordon, this is a situation where I want the instructions to be visible outside QuizPort because the Unit 1 Instructions include information (how to do the different Hot Pots) that they may need to refer back to in later units.
Cheers,
Glenys
Hi Glenys!
I've been following yours, Gordon and Gerald's posts: it's so interesting to learn how other people do things.
I was wondering if you might be able to slow your students down when they read the instructions by presenting the instructions in a converted Powerpoint presentation where a voicover comes up telling them to be sure to read the instructions, and then the instructions come up bit by bit. But I suppose they could still just drag the play button forward to the end if they wished. It would also be quite a lot of work. You could always make a link in your quizzes to the instructions though couldn't you? That's given me an idea - I think I am going to do that!
As for not wanting to give them a score for reading the instructions - I'm not quite with you there. I, like Gerald, have html pages in between Hotpots in Quizport. Those pages don't get a score. I don't see any problem with you having an instructions page in the form on an html page in between your Quizports.
All the best,
Deborah
I've been following yours, Gordon and Gerald's posts: it's so interesting to learn how other people do things.
I was wondering if you might be able to slow your students down when they read the instructions by presenting the instructions in a converted Powerpoint presentation where a voicover comes up telling them to be sure to read the instructions, and then the instructions come up bit by bit. But I suppose they could still just drag the play button forward to the end if they wished. It would also be quite a lot of work. You could always make a link in your quizzes to the instructions though couldn't you? That's given me an idea - I think I am going to do that!
As for not wanting to give them a score for reading the instructions - I'm not quite with you there. I, like Gerald, have html pages in between Hotpots in Quizport. Those pages don't get a score. I don't see any problem with you having an instructions page in the form on an html page in between your Quizports.
All the best,
Deborah
Glenys,
When you add the mandatory Resource to your QuizPort sequence, edit it so it has a maximum grade of "no grade" and a weighting of "none." That way, I think it will not appear in the gradebook or get a grade.
Last week, I set up a similar sequence as a demo on Gordon's server (his "sandbox"), at
http://bateson.kanazawa-gu.ac.jp/moodle/19/mysql/course/view.php?id=2
I think the site will tell you how to log in. My demo is the item with the long name at the bottom. Look at the QuizPort settings and you'll see the workaround for making an html page a precondition for a quiz.
I made this example to find out how to give additional feedback to students just starting out (one feedback page for Good, go ahead, and another for Oops, go back). But the same settings could be used to force students to see a specific page before taking a quiz -- just start the chain with a placeholder quiz.
I don't know how to make such a precondition-Resource page stay visible for a set length of time.
The only thing I can think of is to deliver the reading/instructional passage as a series of quizzes they have to read and click through. That's a bit controlling, but it might be useful for students who skim past too much important material without reading it.
How about this idea: if a student does not learn the material by reading the Resource on her own, you could use a low quiz score later in the chain to loop her back through a step-by-step delivery of the instructional material she did not pay enough attention to the first time around. This time through, slow down, assess more often, make them get the details right. It's picky and takes a lot of fussy programming, but that might help.
That would be somewhat like taking a passage of music that you are learning to play and breaking it into phrases, then rehearsing each phrase separately.
Gerald
When you add the mandatory Resource to your QuizPort sequence, edit it so it has a maximum grade of "no grade" and a weighting of "none." That way, I think it will not appear in the gradebook or get a grade.
Last week, I set up a similar sequence as a demo on Gordon's server (his "sandbox"), at
http://bateson.kanazawa-gu.ac.jp/moodle/19/mysql/course/view.php?id=2
I think the site will tell you how to log in. My demo is the item with the long name at the bottom. Look at the QuizPort settings and you'll see the workaround for making an html page a precondition for a quiz.
I made this example to find out how to give additional feedback to students just starting out (one feedback page for Good, go ahead, and another for Oops, go back). But the same settings could be used to force students to see a specific page before taking a quiz -- just start the chain with a placeholder quiz.
I don't know how to make such a precondition-Resource page stay visible for a set length of time.
The only thing I can think of is to deliver the reading/instructional passage as a series of quizzes they have to read and click through. That's a bit controlling, but it might be useful for students who skim past too much important material without reading it.
How about this idea: if a student does not learn the material by reading the Resource on her own, you could use a low quiz score later in the chain to loop her back through a step-by-step delivery of the instructional material she did not pay enough attention to the first time around. This time through, slow down, assess more often, make them get the details right. It's picky and takes a lot of fussy programming, but that might help.
That would be somewhat like taking a passage of music that you are learning to play and breaking it into phrases, then rehearsing each phrase separately.
Gerald
Hi Gerald and Deborah,
Thanks for reminding me that you can intersperse the Hot Pots with ordinary html pages - I'd forgotten I'd read about that asI've never actually done it.
Still, I'd prefer to have the Instructions outside of the QuizPort for the other reason I gave (later findability).
However, that's not the document I want to encourage them to read slowly - it's the text that they're going to be working on. I want them just to relax, read and listen. It's amazing how much better you can understand a foreign language when you do that. In the classroom I impose it by telling them to sit comfortably, not to make an effort but just to keep their eyes on the page and just listen. I'm large, imposing and the teacher, so they do it. Mmm... maybe if I added a video of myself giving just these instructions. I've never done that - given online instructions by video. I feel shy about it. But now I've written about it publicly, I'm going to have to try, aren't I?
Cheers,
Glenys
Thanks for reminding me that you can intersperse the Hot Pots with ordinary html pages - I'd forgotten I'd read about that asI've never actually done it.
Still, I'd prefer to have the Instructions outside of the QuizPort for the other reason I gave (later findability).
However, that's not the document I want to encourage them to read slowly - it's the text that they're going to be working on. I want them just to relax, read and listen. It's amazing how much better you can understand a foreign language when you do that. In the classroom I impose it by telling them to sit comfortably, not to make an effort but just to keep their eyes on the page and just listen. I'm large, imposing and the teacher, so they do it. Mmm... maybe if I added a video of myself giving just these instructions. I've never done that - given online instructions by video. I feel shy about it. But now I've written about it publicly, I'm going to have to try, aren't I?
Cheers,
Glenys