I have created a quiz with a 10 minute time limit. Some students did the quiz and were given 0. I looked at their responses and they had several items correct. The students with 0 seem to have gone over the time limit. However, I was under the understanding that responses were automatically submitted when the max. time limit was reached. I sent this problem to netspot and the upshot of their response was that they couldn't explain and that this was what manual override was for, but I am reluctant to do that until I've troubleshot why this happened in the first place.
Any suggestions?
Hi James,
This problem has already been discussed in this discussion. As far as I can experiment on my 1.9.5 moodle installation, responses to questions which have been answered are indeed saved and count in the quiz scoring even if the student does not finish/submit before the time limit expires.
Joseph
This problem has already been discussed in this discussion. As far as I can experiment on my 1.9.5 moodle installation, responses to questions which have been answered are indeed saved and count in the quiz scoring even if the student does not finish/submit before the time limit expires.
Joseph
Thanks, Joseph. I've checked over that thread, but I'm still kinda puzzled because I definitely have quiz responses which have been awarded 0 as a total mark, but when I look over these students' quiz responses they seem to have several correct answers which appear to have been marked as such, but their total is 0. This has occurred for 2 out of 120 quiz completions so far. This is with a Moodle 1.9.4 installation at http://learnonline.canberra.edu.au. I've also posted about this here:
http://learnonline.canberra.edu.au/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=24510
http://learnonline.canberra.edu.au/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=24510
From the help feature on the Time Limit setting in the Upgrade screen for a Moodle quiz:
"If a student manages to cheat and spends more than 60 seconds over the allotted time then the quiz is automatically graded zero."
"If a student manages to cheat and spends more than 60 seconds over the allotted time then the quiz is automatically graded zero."
Think of it as a parallel to the gradebook feature where you can set a maximum number of points.
Students can work up to and beyond that point in any area where you've set a max, and all the scores will be recorded in the individual activities, but the aggregate will default back to the maximum. Here the "maximum" for a too-late quiz seems to be zero.
You can do the manual override, and it doesn't screw up anything, in my experience. I'm on 1.9.3, but I doubt if 1.9.4 would differ much.
Students can work up to and beyond that point in any area where you've set a max, and all the scores will be recorded in the individual activities, but the aggregate will default back to the maximum. Here the "maximum" for a too-late quiz seems to be zero.
You can do the manual override, and it doesn't screw up anything, in my experience. I'm on 1.9.3, but I doubt if 1.9.4 would differ much.
I experience the very same problem from time to time. I'd be curious to know about the source of the problem, and in particular if it's related to a cheating attempt in any way.
Is there any mean of cheating about test time limit? My guess was no, because the reference time is of course taken from the server clock, but still wonder, because this problem still occurred today, and the student told me the time reported on the test was wrong.
Not sure this could be related to the problem, but I notice she used the "save and continue" button (I see the "quizz continue attempt" event in the logs).
Yvonnick
Is there any mean of cheating about test time limit? My guess was no, because the reference time is of course taken from the server clock, but still wonder, because this problem still occurred today, and the student told me the time reported on the test was wrong.
Not sure this could be related to the problem, but I notice she used the "save and continue" button (I see the "quizz continue attempt" event in the logs).
Yvonnick
I find that students are often confused about "Save without submitting" on quizzes with time limits. They think the clock stops until they continue the attempt. The clock still runs, however. If they continue, and submit beyond the time limit, they are scored a 0. The timer would not be very useful if student could save (freeze time), look up answers, and continue with the time clock starting from the point that he/she saved.
Rob
Rob
Yvonnick,
Technically, yes a student can cheat on a timed quiz.
The quiz timer runs off the client machine (student's computer) so if she/he has access to the computer time she/he can essentially change it which would give more time on the timer. However, Moodle compensates for this by doing a check at the end of the exam, against the server time.
If the student's quiz time is over the time limit on the exam, the student is automatically graded zero.
With that said, the timer is also a bit "buggy". The quiz timer can change it's time simply by way of the student clicking on the back or forward button of the browser, and in some instances, a simple 'right click' on the quiz can pause the timer! (some versions of IE) So a student can in fact get graded zero, and not have cheated on purpose.
Susan
Technically, yes a student can cheat on a timed quiz.
The quiz timer runs off the client machine (student's computer) so if she/he has access to the computer time she/he can essentially change it which would give more time on the timer. However, Moodle compensates for this by doing a check at the end of the exam, against the server time.
If the student's quiz time is over the time limit on the exam, the student is automatically graded zero.
With that said, the timer is also a bit "buggy". The quiz timer can change it's time simply by way of the student clicking on the back or forward button of the browser, and in some instances, a simple 'right click' on the quiz can pause the timer! (some versions of IE) So a student can in fact get graded zero, and not have cheated on purpose.
Susan
Oh dear. I was not aware of that IE bug. Please file in the bug tracker, so I remember to make a work-around some time. Thanks.
Hi Susan, I'm newbie in moodle. So do you mean that the quizzes time depends on student's clock? This is our problem right now, some faculties were claiming that quizzes for student has been expired before they take it due to incorrect time on workstation? I believe that it doesn't depends on workstation clock but rather on server's clock.please confirm.
Thanks.
Time limits in Moodle depend only on the server's clock.
We are running 1.9.2 (awaiting 2.0 before we upgrade due to a heavy amount of custom coding) and have noticed an oddity in the quiz timing mechanism.
If a quiz is set to close at a certain time, but no time limit is set, the following occurs:
This has proven a little problematic with our faculty and student body, as the assumption was that the quiz attempt would save and submit upon closing time, regardless. This may have been addressed in later versions or in this forum, and if so I apologize.
If a quiz is set to close at a certain time, but no time limit is set, the following occurs:
- If a student begins an attempt on a quiz with less than 1 hour left before closing, the quiz attempt will progress with a countdown timer appearing showing how long is left before the quiz closes. If the student does not submit prior to the timer expiring, the quiz will save and submit all answers when the timer reaches zero.
- If a student begins an attempt with more than 1 hour left before closing, no timer appears. If the student goes beyond the scheduled time of closing, the quiz remains open, but, upon submission, a zero score is recorded.
This has proven a little problematic with our faculty and student body, as the assumption was that the quiz attempt would save and submit upon closing time, regardless. This may have been addressed in later versions or in this forum, and if so I apologize.
Quizzes that go over time limit are a problem. Full stop.
If you search this forum, you will find other threads on the subject. See also MDL-3030 and linked bugs.
Unfortunately, it is not a problem that I (or anyone else) has been able to address yet, so it is almost certainly the case that nothing will change in Moodle 2.0.
However, people at the OU (where I work) have been making noises about this, so there is a significant chance something might happen for Moodle 2.1.
Anyway, that sets the scene. Now, to address your specific point. I would like to amend your second bullet point:
* If as student begins a quiz attempt with more than 1 hour left, and never clicks save changes for over an hour ...
Now, what would you say to a student who was working on a Word document for over an hour, and who never one bothered to click save, and whose computer then crashed?
If you click save any time during the last hour of the quiz attempt (or navigate to another page on a multi-page quiz during that time) then the timer will appear, and so the quiz will be automatically submitted before the time expires.
If you search this forum, you will find other threads on the subject. See also MDL-3030 and linked bugs.
Unfortunately, it is not a problem that I (or anyone else) has been able to address yet, so it is almost certainly the case that nothing will change in Moodle 2.0.
However, people at the OU (where I work) have been making noises about this, so there is a significant chance something might happen for Moodle 2.1.
Anyway, that sets the scene. Now, to address your specific point. I would like to amend your second bullet point:
* If as student begins a quiz attempt with more than 1 hour left, and never clicks save changes for over an hour ...
Now, what would you say to a student who was working on a Word document for over an hour, and who never one bothered to click save, and whose computer then crashed?
If you click save any time during the last hour of the quiz attempt (or navigate to another page on a multi-page quiz during that time) then the timer will appear, and so the quiz will be automatically submitted before the time expires.
Oh, I'm in full agreement and we do, quite often, have to instruct the end-users that they should be saving periodically. We also suggest that instructors design quizzes as multiple pages for this reason as well.
Unfortunately, the argument we get is that "well, all these other programs save automatically now-adays, why not my quizzes?".
This, like so many of the problems we face at LSU (and I'm sure this is true elsewhere), becomes more of a training of expectations issue. We try to instruct the users on how things work within the bounds of Moodle, while giving them the ability to request changes, but instead, and this is only true for a small (but vocal) subsection of users, they try to use Moodle how they think it should work, and then complain when it doesn't do what they think it should.
Anyway, that's a whole other soapbox. Thanks for the reply Tim. If my dev team comes up with any brilliant ideas, we'll be sure to pass them along
.
Unfortunately, the argument we get is that "well, all these other programs save automatically now-adays, why not my quizzes?".
This, like so many of the problems we face at LSU (and I'm sure this is true elsewhere), becomes more of a training of expectations issue. We try to instruct the users on how things work within the bounds of Moodle, while giving them the ability to request changes, but instead, and this is only true for a small (but vocal) subsection of users, they try to use Moodle how they think it should work, and then complain when it doesn't do what they think it should.
Anyway, that's a whole other soapbox. Thanks for the reply Tim. If my dev team comes up with any brilliant ideas, we'll be sure to pass them along
Somewhere in this forum there is an old post with Olli Savolainen, that implements Ajax-y save of work in progress for the quiz. Of course, that increases total server load, and I don't know if the suggested approach still works.