New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tranquil Earth -
Number of replies: 27

Hi Moodlers,

Thank you to Martin and gang for another fabulous feature, something I have been really looking forward to.

Before 1.4, I have been using OsCommerce (free shopping site) in conjunction with Moodle for my paying students, so now, having paying options combined in one package makes life easier for me.

Now I understand that this is just the initial and probably the most widely used payment gateway that people use ... BUT I operate an Australian School with predominantly Australian participants, so I actually use a combination of payment options and will probably be phasing out Paypal eventually.

I actually use PayMate (Australian) which allows students to pay me in Australian Dollars or International Students can pay me in US Dollars (but I would like to have other currencies available).  I personally find this service less expensive than Paypal and it suits my purposes, having mainly Australian Students.  Being an Australian School, I need to have GST added in for Australian Students (only), international Students pay me minus GST, so I really need this distinction.

I know I tend to be rambling here, and I don't want to put you to sleep ... BUT.

On the OsCommerce site, (being Open Source just like Moodle) the code is available to ALL to add extra payment gateways, participants may use this code as long as they submit to OsCommerce, the gateway they have been able to connect to.  I am not a programmer, but have managed to muddle my way through OsCommerce's site and download the various gateways I require.  This is just a suggestion as an alternative to paying for extra gateways, although I know Martin very much deserves the money (and everyone else who helps out here), sometimes people just can't afford to pay at the time they desperately need something. 

If we had a list of the payment files (moodle) that you need to modify.  Maybe all of us could find someway to contribute by writing our own seperate payment Gateways and they could be added as seperate dowloadable modules for all moodle users to access, rather then having them in a complete version (making it even larger than it is already). 

Just a thought. I'd be more than happy to give it a go to fix my problem, if I knew where to start.

Maybe the module could be changed from Paypal Enrollment to Payment Enrollment, with a list of different Payment Gateways you could select from and modify, (like including Tax or excluding, various currencies etc.), then the students could decide on which Gateway they wish to select, in a pull-down menu, based on e.g. where they live.

I know we don't want to turn Moodle into a shopping site, that's a given, but I would love to know how I can add my alternative Payment Gateways to Moodle as I hate part of my site looking like part of a shop.

Kind Regards,

Penny Lord

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tranquil Earth

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by N Hansen -
Penny-I just visited your site, and I really like how you have set up your course information/payment system already. I'd really appreciate it if you would share how you did it with us. I like the way you have an individual page of information for each course-this is something that isn't built into Moodle at the moment and I think it is very useful for courses people are paying for-a simple concise paragraph isn't long enough to be able to tell people what they will get when enrolling in a course, which is essential for a paid course. I'd also like to know which gateways you used from OS Commerce. 
Average of ratings: -
In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by N Hansen -
And I also would love to know more about the gift vouchers you offer on your site. I would like to do something similar on my site where people could give courses as gifts.
Average of ratings: -
In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by N Hansen -
I just came across this post from someone who wanted to integrate OSCommerce into Moodle. Perhaps he has made some progress on it?
Average of ratings: -
In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tranquil Earth -

Hi N,

All of these features are found within OsCommerce:

http://www.oscommerce.com/ (This is a link to their main page).

http://www.oscommerce.info/ (This is a list of their add on features).

It is a good product once set-up, but it takes forever to configure, so you'll never hear me winge about Moodle, as it's a piece of cake to configure in comparison.  They do have a community forum, but no where near as good as this one.  I've asked for help about half a dozen times and never received a reply.

Kind Regards,

Penny

Average of ratings: -
In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tranquil Earth -

Hi N,

I'd be more than willing to share any info I can with my fellow Moodlers.

My website is: http://www.dmschool.org (this is set-up in my own Website software).

Each Paying Course - is a link to my OsCommerce site, and it is just contained within frames.  Once logged-in to moodle, you can also access this information under the i (info.) icon in Moodle has a link for further information - this links back to a page in my OsCommerce (see previous post). 

Each FREE Course - is just part of my website sotware with links to it, under the i (info.) icon in Moodle has a link for further information to a page on my website.

The Payment Gateways I use currently through OsCommerce are:

Paypal, Paymate and Australian Bank Transfer.

I hope this helps.

Kinds Regards,

Penny Lord.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tranquil Earth

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Penny, the enrolment architecture is already designed to allow more payment gateways. The Paypal module is just the first example. All one needs to do to add more gateways is copy enrol/paypal to enrol/paymate and then rewrite all the code in that new folder.

Making a menu of options to buyers is a good idea.
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by N Hansen -
There should also be an option to pay by check available. 
Average of ratings: -
In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Chardelle Busch -
Picture of Core developers
What?  With PayPal, and I'm sure other payment methods, you can pay with an electronic check transfer.  Is that what you mean? 
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Chardelle Busch

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by N Hansen -
No, I'm talking about the old-fashioned method of writing a check and sending it by snail mail, a method that would take place outside of Paypal. I might even want to add the ability to make a direct bank deposit/transfer. If I were to want to have students in Egypt itself while I'm living in the US, it might be difficult for people to pay me by traditional methods, and rather I could have them deposit money directly into my Egyptian bank account.  When I taught an online course before, I actually did have a foreigner living in Egypt enroll in my course, and if such a thing were to happen today, and they wanted to pay with their foreign credit card, they might find it difficult like I have been finding it to be.
Average of ratings: -
In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Ralph Blakeslee -
N -

A suggestion by the way of snail mail/check payments - create a button or link that "pops up" an invoice with all the information on the course. Instruct the future student to print out the invoice and send it to you with their check, money order or whatever. I sure someone call also design some code that enable you to be notified when an invoice is created.

I think it is important to offer several different payment menthods to students/clients.

Ralph
Average of ratings: -
In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Chardelle Busch -
Picture of Core developers

n,

I'm not sure how you would expect Moodle to automatically enroll them once you receive the check.  Are you saying that going in and manually enrolling them once you receive the check is not an option?

And Ralph's suggestion is very good, that way, when you receive the check, you will have all of the information you need--name, course, etc.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Chardelle Busch

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by N Hansen -
Of course, I would go in and manually enroll them. But as things are set up now, if you use the plug-in the way things work is to send people directly to the pay-pal process, or register and then go to Paypal.

In fact, I'm not so concerned with additional plug-ins. What really concerns me is that the length of course enrollment and course cost are determined on a per-course basis. Unless there is an ability to remove these variables from the course and move them into the plug-in instead, I can't really use any plug-in.

Also, the procedure of the plug-in system I feel is poorly structured, or at the very least, poorly documented for the user. People see a course, they see its price, they click on a course, and then they are taken to the login page. If they aren't already lost as to what is going on, then they might register. But register for what? They aren't told what they are registering for. And then after they register, and confirm their account from the email that was sent to them (if you haven't lost them already) they suddenly are transferred to a Paypal page. But what do they get when they pay? Will they be enrolled instantly? They aren't told anything before making their purchase.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable making such a purchase. We've got to put ourselves in the shoes of someone who has never used Moodle before, because this may all seem very clear to us but a new user will find it confusing.

This is why I liked Dragonlady's site so much. She lays out clearly what the course will include, she lays out clearly the payment and enrollment process to the student. For me, it's an excellent model.  Even if foregoing the payment plug-in system means that I will have to take 2 minutes of my time to enroll each student manually, it is worth it to me rather than lose students because of a system that confuses them and makes them jump through a lot of hoops before they actually push the button to make their payment.


Average of ratings: -
In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Chardelle Busch -
Picture of Core developers

Hi again n,

Dragonlady's site includes lots of information about enrollment, paying, etc.  But I don't see where that has anything to do with the payment system per se.  Here's a suggestion.  You can put all of the info you want in your course description.  And if it is too much, then add a Learn more>>> link underneath the course description that goes to a page with all the information anyone could want. 

When a registered user clicks on a course title, they are taken to a page with the course info right above the PayPal button so they will see any instructions there.  And, right above the button it says:  "

Use the button below to pay and be enrolled within minutes!

That also does tell them something--and you can change this language to anything you want.  And yes, when they go to the PayPal page, they are told that they are paying for "Title of Course". 

Another suggestion is to have a free course available that will get users through the registration process first, and used to the system before they buy anything.  A lot of sites use this strategy.  And as for making your users comfortable (or not confused)--that's up to you--any well designed site will do that before a user purchases anything. 

I don't think your arguments againt the pay integration system are well founded and I disagree that users have to jump through too many hoops.  I personally have never used a "membership" type of site that worked any better than this does.  The only difference maybe being the confirmation via email to register, but I prefer that security over more convenience.  And remember, you can change the language on the registration page and in the automatic emails to anything you think would be more clear to your users.  And actually, the new payment integration makes it even easier because users do not need to enter an enrollment key!  If you have a problem with the way the PayPal systems works, then that's another story and has nothing to do with this discussion. 

As for the ability to have the payment system handle the enrollment period (instead having Moodle do it for you per course) you might be able to find a system that bills users that way (e.g. on a membership type basis) that will work.  Let us know what you find out.

Chardelle 

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Chardelle Busch

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by N Hansen -
Chardelle-As I said, we need to put ourselves in the shoes of someone who knows nothing about our site whatsoever and has never used Moodle at all. Try testing the payment system without already being a registered user of your site and observe the stages that one must go through. This is what I am talking about. If someone isn't already registered at your site, they have to jump through a lot of hoops before ever getting to anything about payment. I don't think it is a good idea to assume everyone is already registered at a site when designing a system.

And as I said, it isn't necessarily the steps themselves that are the problem, but the information provided to users along the way. Yes, of course, everyone has the chance to change the messages displayed themselves, but I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of a Moodle novice, whether user or admin. Someone might not yet have figured out how to edit language pack, so the standard language pack perhaps should be tweaked to account for the possibility that a course will require payment. It mentions enrollment keys, which are an optional feature, so perhaps it should say something like, "If this course requires payment, you will be taken to a payment page after completing the registration process." 

Web users are not all as smart as we would like them to be. At one of my jobs, I'm responsible for reading all the feedback email sent to our site. I'm always amazed by the fact that people write to us asking questions to which the answer is explicitly made available as links from the same page with the feedback form. Their eyes have to pass over the links before they ever get to the feedback form, yet they somehow miss them. But the fact that I put those links there has cut down immensely on the number of certain types of questions we get, as some people actually do notice them. And also, although our new Web site gets a lot more traffic than our old Web site (we average 2 to 3 thousand unique visitors a day), the amount of questions we get compared to the previous Web site is actually much less-because the site is so well designed that most people can find what they are looking for without having to ask about it.

So it's not simply a matter of programming the functionality of accepting payments, it's also a matter of good design.
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Chardelle Busch

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tan M -

Hi Chardelle,

You mention in this post that one can change the language on the payment page.  I was wondering, is there any way to change the language on the button itself?  The "Send payment via PayPal" button?

I have no coding knowledge and so have no idea even where to look, let alone how to change it.  mixed

Looking forward to your reply!

Tan

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tan M

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tranquil Earth -

Hi Tan,

Just thought I'd try to help ....

In each language file moodle/lang/?  there is a file called enrol_paypal.php. On line 8 of this file, is the text which is interchangeable with this Button ($string) dependent on which language is selected, so this should be an automated process, depending on which language the student etc. has selected.

If it's not working, I'm not sure why?  I must admit, my site mainly has english speaking students.

Ok, I just tried it in Spanish (es) and a few other languages and it didn't work, the button and other information is still in English. I wonder if this could be a bug?

Kind Regards,

Penny

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tranquil Earth

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tan M -

Thank you Lady DragonMagic!

I will make the change, as you described!

A question regarding making changes to PHP files: is there a particular application I should use to make changes?  I remember when I was editing my config.php file... it was a nightmare because I was using regular text editors (Word, Notepad, etc) and it kept adding extra characters.  Even the text editor of my webhost mucked my config.php file up pretty bad.  I just did a google search and downloaded a PHP editor by dzsoft.  Can you give me a thumbs up or recommend another?

Sorry I'm so unschooled in this stuff! smile

Tan

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tan M

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tranquil Earth -

Hi Tan,

I would probably take note of Martin's recent suggestion, see if this paypal file is already in your desired language, in the moodle/lang/? directory, if it's not, go to the language download page to download it from there.  You shouldn't need to edit the file at all, it should work automatically.

If you do need to edit .php files, I found a FREE package called Ariesoft Winsyntax 2.0, I think you may be able to download it at download.com, it is very good and has the line numbers to make it easier.

Good luck!

Kind Regards,

Penny

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tranquil Earth

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by N Hansen -
There's another good free program for editing php files that I think someone here in this course recommended, called nPad2. It's nice because it colorizes the code (a la WP1), which is useful for finding mistakes like missing brackets.
Average of ratings: -
In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Chardelle Busch -
Picture of Core developers

Thanks for all of the good info here everyone.  I actually took a day off yesterday!

Chardelle

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tranquil Earth

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tan M -

Thanks again, Lady!

Let me see if i I have it right:

I did a search and found that my Moodle (1.4.1+) only had the file enrol_paypal.php in the lang\en folder.  I am using the en_us lang but, per your first post, found that editing the lang\en file made it work for all languages, right?

So now if I download the file for other languages, you're saying that I don't have to edit them at all.  Instead, they will automatically translate from the enrol_paypal.php file that I previously altered in the lang\en folder.

Is this correct?  Just want to make sure!

Tan

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tan M

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by N Hansen -
Tan-Actually what happens is that if you have set your language to be anything else other than en (even en_us), Moodle will first look in that language pack for any particular string, and if it doesn't find it there, it will get whatever string it finds in en. So it would depend on whether that string existed in the other language pack or not. For example, if you download the Spanish pack es, and it already contained the enrol_paypal.php file with the particular string in it, then it would print it in Spanish. If it wasn't there already, then it would just take whatever string it found in en.

It is recommended that you don't edit the en pack itself ever, but rather create a new pack with the strings you need in it, so upgrades to Moodle don't override your previous changes. I posted a question about this in the languages forum recently and someone answered me recently about it.
Average of ratings: -
In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tan M -

Excellent!  I like the way that works.

Thanks, everyone, for assisting me with this!

Tan

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tranquil Earth -

Martin,

Thanks for getting back to me with all this info.  I was quite sure that this was the way moodle was heading.

If I can work out how to link to Paymate, just as you have Paypal, I would be more than happy to share that with the rest of the Moodlers ... as for me, I feel it's a bit of a priority.

Thanks again.

Kind Regards,

Penny.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tranquil Earth -

Hi Martin,

If you're too busy, maybe one of the other Moodlers who worked on Paypal may be able to help me.

I have begun work on a Paymate payment Option, having copied enrol/paypal to enrol/paymate, and I've hit a slight problem when modifying the code.  I have tripple checked the code and cannot seem to work out where I have gone wrong?

You will notice below, on the labels/fields " " that information is missing, could you please point me in the right direction to the file which allows me to edit these:

of enrolment: External Database Flat file Internal Enrolment Paypal enrolname 

enrolname

description

enrol_cost:

 Default cost

enrol_currency:

 AUS Dollars US Dollars Currency

enrol_paymatebusiness:

 business

enrol_mailstudents:

 Inform students

enrol_mailteachers:

 Inform teachers

enrol_mailadmins:

 Inform admins

Hopefully I will have this new payment gateway available to all moodlers today.

Thank you.

Kind Regards,

Penny.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tranquil Earth

Re: New Paypal Enrollments - some suggestions ...

by Tan M -

Hi!

Is there any documentation on the new paypal feature I can look at?  I've been hunting, but cannot find any.  In particular:

"Let's say I'm using paypal for my enrollment method.  I create a course now (in September) that I want to go live in November.  I want it to be active from November 1st through November 30th.  If I set the start date of the course (in course settings) to November 1st, and then set the enrollment period to 30 days, is it true that a user who purchases the course tomorrow will not be able to login until November 1st?  And that they will no longer be able to access the course after November 30th?"

Since I want the same course to repeat every month, and students should be able to sign up for whatever month they want to take the course, it would be nice to setup courses in advance like this.

Tan

Average of ratings: -