Hallo, I'm creating a presentation at my University listing all pros and advantages of Moodle in comparison to other LMS.
We use Dokeos now and are testing Moodle since some months and decided to go on with Moodle because of flexibility, community growth and so on.
One of the reasons we therefore want to underline is that code is growing more efficiently and also community is huge and active.
I was looking for some statistics and data that could help me with my presentation and I found out this tool:
http://www.ohloh.net/p/compare
Here you can compare projects and in particular
Codebase Activity Contributors
but...wow... there not only I cannot find data supporting my thesis..it seems that Moodle is going down in all 3 areas, while Dokeos is growing...
now frankly I don't believe those data are really mirroring what truly happens, and I don't know how they are collecting infos to compare...
What do you think about it? Did you know that tool? Do you know alternative comparison tool that can give me an idea of the real situation?
Thanks a lot in advance
Rant warning (and this is nothing at all to do with any affiliations I have):
Tools like this are utterly stupid and make be really cross. What do these statistics *really* tell you. Ok, the code base is shrinking.... perhaps that's because the code is being refactored and loads of duplication is being removed?
It's similar to comparint VLEs using one of thoe "features tickbox" matrix things. Utterly useless - it tells you nothing about stuff that actually matters.
All of this is just PowerPoint fodder. And PowerPoint is the most evil invention the recent world has known. (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/ppt2.html)
I have some opinions about those figures. I think perhaps the developer community is getting, shall we say, more focussed. I'm not sure it is a good thing or a bad thing, it's just a thing. The dynamic of projects change but I don't see how raw figures like that tell you anything at all insightful.
...Rant over
Tools like this are utterly stupid and make be really cross. What do these statistics *really* tell you. Ok, the code base is shrinking.... perhaps that's because the code is being refactored and loads of duplication is being removed?
It's similar to comparint VLEs using one of thoe "features tickbox" matrix things. Utterly useless - it tells you nothing about stuff that actually matters.
All of this is just PowerPoint fodder. And PowerPoint is the most evil invention the recent world has known. (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/ppt2.html)
I have some opinions about those figures. I think perhaps the developer community is getting, shall we say, more focussed. I'm not sure it is a good thing or a bad thing, it's just a thing. The dynamic of projects change but I don't see how raw figures like that tell you anything at all insightful.
...Rant over
Hi Sara,
such comparisons are not the real world. They are a map and describe parts of the world.
If you look at the structure of the Moodle project and Dokeos you will see great differences. Moodle has three areas of development (Moodle, Moodle (contrib) and Moodle (lang)).
If you add all three areas for Moodle your result will be quite different in comparisons.
On the other hand projects have different development cycles and structures. Over the last months the Dokeos project was in a big crisis about further development and structures. It wasn't quite clear if there will be any new development over the next time.
Ralf
such comparisons are not the real world. They are a map and describe parts of the world.
If you look at the structure of the Moodle project and Dokeos you will see great differences. Moodle has three areas of development (Moodle, Moodle (contrib) and Moodle (lang)).
If you add all three areas for Moodle your result will be quite different in comparisons.
On the other hand projects have different development cycles and structures. Over the last months the Dokeos project was in a big crisis about further development and structures. It wasn't quite clear if there will be any new development over the next time.
Ralf
Thank you very much for Yr intervention, Ralf and thank you, Howard.
A reaction of those who know the situation is what I expected.
I believe in Moodle and my feeling about Dokeos is that every now and then they come out with a new tool that is already present in Moodle but then this tool is not developed and does not run properly.
And I'm aware that such comparisons are not the real world; sometimes, however, we are really convinced in something and would like to show real results but people taking decisions are asking for figures... that is why I looked around and found that tool...
And your answers will help me a lot finding out an answer to those who could base upon such tools in order to support different opinions.
Now those who are using Dokeos tend to underline that Moodle is not that intuitive and easy to use, that navigation lacks some features and so on, and when you put them in front of other characteristics they can also use such tools to sustain an opinion against another
I wanted to hear voices here in our community and hear what you think about it since I did not like this comparison.
Thanks a lot
Sara
A reaction of those who know the situation is what I expected.
I believe in Moodle and my feeling about Dokeos is that every now and then they come out with a new tool that is already present in Moodle but then this tool is not developed and does not run properly.
And I'm aware that such comparisons are not the real world; sometimes, however, we are really convinced in something and would like to show real results but people taking decisions are asking for figures... that is why I looked around and found that tool...
And your answers will help me a lot finding out an answer to those who could base upon such tools in order to support different opinions.
Now those who are using Dokeos tend to underline that Moodle is not that intuitive and easy to use, that navigation lacks some features and so on, and when you put them in front of other characteristics they can also use such tools to sustain an opinion against another
I wanted to hear voices here in our community and hear what you think about it since I did not like this comparison.
Thanks a lot
Sara
If the comparison was the other way around, I would say *exactly* the same thing. Who said, "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler"? Whatever, it was good advice. Most of these "statistics" break the last part of that rule. It is *complicated* explaining why one project is better/worse/more sustainable than any other.
Maybe Einstein said that...
it is not easy to tell people about advantages of means before and without having them using them...
it is not easy to tell people about advantages of means before and without having them using them...
We are thinking about how to improve navigation in Moodle 2.0 at the moment. What would you say makes the navigation in Dokeos good? What can Moodle learn from that?
Hi Tim,
in Dokeos you can create a learning path that is visualized as a menu like the YUI menu block. This is a function we often add for our clients. Users are looking for such menus for orientation.
In Dokeos are several other visualisation solved in a good way. For exmaple: editing quiz questions www.dokeos.com/doc/dokeos_teacher_english.pdf (pages 34-35).
A problem in Dokeos is that the standard way to present activities is ordering by activities and not by didactical aspects in a topics context.
Ralf
in Dokeos you can create a learning path that is visualized as a menu like the YUI menu block. This is a function we often add for our clients. Users are looking for such menus for orientation.
In Dokeos are several other visualisation solved in a good way. For exmaple: editing quiz questions www.dokeos.com/doc/dokeos_teacher_english.pdf (pages 34-35).
A problem in Dokeos is that the standard way to present activities is ordering by activities and not by didactical aspects in a topics context.
Ralf
in Dokeos you can create a learning path that is visualized as a menu like the YUI menu block.
We get frequent requests for this also, for which we built the Flexpage course format/menu module/themes
.
We get frequent requests for this also, for which we built the Flexpage course format/menu module/themes
I think you may be going to like the new quiz editing interface in Moodle 2.0 them.
Do we need learning paths in Moodle if we have the course home page? Would it be enough to have a block that shows all the course sections, resources and activities, that you could access from anywhere in the course?
Do we need learning paths in Moodle if we have the course home page? Would it be enough to have a block that shows all the course sections, resources and activities, that you could access from anywhere in the course?
Is this similar to what the OU where (are?) doing with MyStuff? I forget what they called the learning paths feature.....
In my understanding learning paths and a menu block are different functionalities.
A learning path is often meant as an instructional way for the users to go through the course. This feature is actually available for some activities in 1.9.x and its a general feature in 2.0.
The activity block is not the same like the menu block. I think its often more sensefull to visualize the didactical arrangement in the course as a tradtional menu that is visible in all pages. By the way, its not possible to show blocks on all pages or to define that the standard course blocks are visible on all pages.
The new quiz editing interface is not much better than the old one. To much elements with same/similar functions in different ways. No easy to understand user leading through the page. More comments about this at http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=116936
A learning path is often meant as an instructional way for the users to go through the course. This feature is actually available for some activities in 1.9.x and its a general feature in 2.0.
The activity block is not the same like the menu block. I think its often more sensefull to visualize the didactical arrangement in the course as a tradtional menu that is visible in all pages. By the way, its not possible to show blocks on all pages or to define that the standard course blocks are visible on all pages.
The new quiz editing interface is not much better than the old one. To much elements with same/similar functions in different ways. No easy to understand user leading through the page. More comments about this at http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=116936
Well I think users ALWAYS needs "breadcrumbs" in order not to get lost.
I think that the first thing is PATH: users always needs to know where they are and how to go back:
and I also use course menu block in order to give them the opportunity to find their way back..
but as Ral pointed out path and course menu block are different things and path could be improved, in my opinion
"The cours"e heading should be "present on all screens" since "this allows quick and efficient navigation"
Tabs could be used, for example.
I think that we could work on icons related to functions. I noticed that in Dokes often icons are really clear and in the glimpse of an eye you know where to go.
- home
- to one course's home
- to course sections
and I also use course menu block in order to give them the opportunity to find their way back..
but as Ral pointed out path and course menu block are different things and path could be improved, in my opinion
"The cours"e heading should be "present on all screens" since "this allows quick and efficient navigation"
Tabs could be used, for example.
I think that we could work on icons related to functions. I noticed that in Dokes often icons are really clear and in the glimpse of an eye you know where to go.
I noticed that often for teachers you have to explain to how to use moodle it is not so cliear and of immediate comprehension the difference between activities and resources... and neither is for students...
Other comments of our teachers and users comparing Dokeos and Moodle: course home page structure in Dokeos is clean, simple and you can have an immediate general view of the course since you have a general view of available tools.
Shrug, lines of code doesn't mean that much, but this is a different graph of the same thing:
http://www.ohloh.net/p/compare?project_0=Moodle+(contrib)&project_1=moodle+(lang)&project_2=dokeos&submit=Go
http://www.ohloh.net/p/compare?project_0=Moodle+(contrib)&project_1=moodle+(lang)&project_2=dokeos&submit=Go