You guys are really great, but I am having the toughest time understanding all of this. I tried to place moodle on hosting site, but that did not work and so I decided to load it to my desktop, but I really want to use a web hosting server and be able to use my domain name.
The best ppl to contact when you are in a real bind is your local Moodle partner. I see you are in the US, so yours would be:
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Marva,
Here are a few "how to" videos I made that you might find helpful.
Server install
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7039650715971161863&hl=en
Local install
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2923364681084515082&hl=en
Jeff
Here are a few "how to" videos I made that you might find helpful.
Server install
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7039650715971161863&hl=en
Local install
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2923364681084515082&hl=en
Jeff
One of the easiest ways to get up and running is to uise a web host that will provide an easy install. DH provides free hosting to non-profits and charges about $6/mo and you can have your Moodle up in about 15 minutes with about 5 clicks. There are others as well.
HOWEVER, use of Moodle for real students is a matter that should not be undertaken lightly and my guess would be that you might want to experiment for at least a year before putting a Moodle into production for students........ If you want to spend thousands now to put a Moodle into immediate production and turn to a Moodle Partner, be aware that you will probably not get more than what your contract may state ( see discussion at http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=109366 ) , so if you have any questions as to what you will or won't get from an MP, solicit a proposed contract and present the language and questions you might have.
Marc
p.s. I believe Julian still works for a Moodle Partner
HOWEVER, use of Moodle for real students is a matter that should not be undertaken lightly and my guess would be that you might want to experiment for at least a year before putting a Moodle into production for students........ If you want to spend thousands now to put a Moodle into immediate production and turn to a Moodle Partner, be aware that you will probably not get more than what your contract may state ( see discussion at http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=109366 ) , so if you have any questions as to what you will or won't get from an MP, solicit a proposed contract and present the language and questions you might have.
Marc
p.s. I believe Julian still works for a Moodle Partner
You will notice I don't have a "Partner" badge on my profile here. Currently I do not work for Partner but instead freelance/contract both within and outside partner circles. I consult for the Moodle partner and do training here in AUS, but also do stuff direct.
I hate being seen as just "That partner guy". Consider me an all rounder both within and outside the partner circles. A good balance in my opinion
I hate being seen as just "That partner guy". Consider me an all rounder both within and outside the partner circles. A good balance in my opinion
I think some of the discussion that Marc sites got a bit ridiculous. The point I was trying to make there and you should be sure of, is that if you enter into *any* business relationship for Moodle support, Moodle Partner or no, it is imperative that you know what you have bought, receive and read the paperwork etc etc. There's nothing different about a Moodle Partner in that respect. What you should expect is a company with a lot of experience in running Moodle if you choose a Moodle Partner.
Yes I do have that Moodle Partner badge
Yes I do have that Moodle Partner badge
if you enter into *any* business relationship for Moodle support, Moodle Partner or no, it is imperative that you know what you have bought, receive and read the paperwork etc etc.
Absolutely, though why this had to be coupled with an aspersion is beyond me, Howard. Saying that a discussion "got a bit ridiculous" could be taken to mean that you are castigating the substantive position of one or more of the participants as aburd and pathetic (as opposed to reflecting on the discussion of the evil eye versus the valley of death - LOL) and the former can lead to hard feelings while not furthering substantive discourse..... Hmmmm, never did resolve that Silliputian Badge issue......
And while I am an attorney and understand the distinction that Clinton was making, Julian doesn't work for an MP much as Wily Bill didn't have sex with Ms. L...... No one was alleging either had an exclusive relationship ;=}
Absolutely, though why this had to be coupled with an aspersion is beyond me, Howard. Saying that a discussion "got a bit ridiculous" could be taken to mean that you are castigating the substantive position of one or more of the participants as aburd and pathetic (as opposed to reflecting on the discussion of the evil eye versus the valley of death - LOL) and the former can lead to hard feelings while not furthering substantive discourse..... Hmmmm, never did resolve that Silliputian Badge issue......
And while I am an attorney and understand the distinction that Clinton was making, Julian doesn't work for an MP much as Wily Bill didn't have sex with Ms. L...... No one was alleging either had an exclusive relationship ;=}
Hi Marva,
Many web hosting solutions offer "Fantastico" which is a package of many different programs--including Moodle. You simply log into your c-panel, and then select Moodle from the list of programs. It is installed automatically for you--easy, very easy! I hope this information is helpful.
Ellen
Many web hosting solutions offer "Fantastico" which is a package of many different programs--including Moodle. You simply log into your c-panel, and then select Moodle from the list of programs. It is installed automatically for you--easy, very easy! I hope this information is helpful.
Ellen
Just a word of caution. Some Fantastico hosts have ancient versions of Moodle without (dare I go here) all the latest security fixes and features.
Best to make sure before jumping in.
Best to make sure before jumping in.
I used Fantastico to install 1.9 and now I can't login as admin with administrative privileges. I got some advice on how to fix it, but hesitate to try it without being sure it is the right fix. I too am seeking someone to work with me long enough to get past this obstacle. I suspect once we do I can probably handle other issues as they come up. Moodle Partners seem to want expensive contracts to do a lot more than I think I need. I need an expert on completing setup after a Fantastico install, probably only for an hour or two on the phone and perhaps to log in to my site so he can see what is going on.
I got some advice on how to fix it, but hesitate to try it without being sure it is the right fix
I am guessing you have not been able to do much without admin privileges, so you don't have much to loose by trying the advice. While I don't know enough about Fantastico myself to be much help there'll be plenty on these forums that do. If you are willing to roll your sleeves up you should get the info you need to sort it yourself.
I would note that even a couple of hours of someone's professional rate will probably be well on the way to a basic inclusive hosting deal.
I am guessing you have not been able to do much without admin privileges, so you don't have much to loose by trying the advice. While I don't know enough about Fantastico myself to be much help there'll be plenty on these forums that do. If you are willing to roll your sleeves up you should get the info you need to sort it yourself.
I would note that even a couple of hours of someone's professional rate will probably be well on the way to a basic inclusive hosting deal.
If you engage with an expert, they won't need to use Fantastico, and in fact it will likely take them longer to undo the damage it does than to install Moodle correctly.
Find someone who knows how apache and mysql work, has installed other similar systems (Drupal, Zikula, SugarCRM, Xaraya, CivicCRM, Mediawiki, are all comparably easy/difficult installs).
Moodle partners support the ongoing improvement/development of Moodle, so it's part of paying them is helping pay for Moodle (Tanstaafl), but if you don't like the partners for some reason, look for folks who have demonstrated experience installing a few of the other systems mentioned above and you'll probably be ok.
If they're charging dramatically less than a partner, they probably don't know what they are doing - same yardstick I'd recommend with a doctor, lawyer, mechanic, etc., someone charging dramatically less than the usual cost is probably taking shortcuts. YMMV.
Find someone who knows how apache and mysql work, has installed other similar systems (Drupal, Zikula, SugarCRM, Xaraya, CivicCRM, Mediawiki, are all comparably easy/difficult installs).
Moodle partners support the ongoing improvement/development of Moodle, so it's part of paying them is helping pay for Moodle (Tanstaafl), but if you don't like the partners for some reason, look for folks who have demonstrated experience installing a few of the other systems mentioned above and you'll probably be ok.
If they're charging dramatically less than a partner, they probably don't know what they are doing - same yardstick I'd recommend with a doctor, lawyer, mechanic, etc., someone charging dramatically less than the usual cost is probably taking shortcuts. YMMV
Michael, I'm not agaist Partners and probably should not say this but I think we should remember one thing:
At the top of Main Menu of http://moodle.org we have a link Free Support that leads to this course. It is very common to ask help from free support forums with questions like "Is there someone I can call?" and on most forums you even find people who are ready to give free help.
Similar needs appear every week and many Particularly helpful Moodlers get private messages/emails from moodlers asking for help. I have never charged anything from my "free moodle support" (dramatically less than a partner) so obviously I should stop doing this because I probably don't know what I am doing (I'm only a teacher you know...) My wife is a doctor and she never charges from me or her collegues - and she really does not understand why I keep hanging here (diagnosis: moodle addiction and time to take a break)
It's ok to offer commercial support from Partners but it should be ok to offer non-commercial support or help too. The worst thing that these discussions cause is that I (or somebody else) might have sent a message to Marva or Jon and offered help to solve their problem but won't do it again because I might take the bread out of Partners mouth.
Moodle is a course management system (CMS) - a free, Open Source software package designed using sound pedagogical principles, to help educators create effective online learning communities.
No one need be concerned that helping me with the nomocracy.org site pro bono is going to take any money out of the mouths of any Moodle partner. We don't have any money, so either I solve the problem, perhaps with the aid of someone who believes in defending the Constitution, or it doesn't get solved. I can probably eventually find the solution by stumbling around, but I would rather spend my time authoring the courseware.
What I am hoping to find is someone who has had the same problem I have had of fixing a Fantastico installation. A lot of people like to criticize that method, but there are undoubtedly many others who have used it, and will in the future, and surely there is someone who has fixed it and can tell the rest of us how, so we can send the information back to whoever programs the Fantastico installers so they can fix the problem from their side and so it won't keep coming up.
What I am hoping to find is someone who has had the same problem I have had of fixing a Fantastico installation. A lot of people like to criticize that method, but there are undoubtedly many others who have used it, and will in the future, and surely there is someone who has fixed it and can tell the rest of us how, so we can send the information back to whoever programs the Fantastico installers so they can fix the problem from their side and so it won't keep coming up.
The problem with Fantastico type installers is that they are built at a particular time and then the webhost may not update the installer right away - usually only updated when there is a new major release, which isn't ideal for constantly updated applications.
Check here
http://netenberg.com/fantastico_scripts.php
to see the current application version (1.9.2 -that is pretty old
) and then make sure your webhost is running the latest Fantastico version.
Its tough to build these installers, takes a month or so, and then the webhosts usually need time to test the installers. It works ok for slowly developing applications, but for applications that are under active development, not so much.
I guess you could liken it somewhat to the installation of the 1787 version of the Constitution without any of the subsequent amendments.
Check here
http://netenberg.com/fantastico_scripts.php
to see the current application version (1.9.2 -that is pretty old
Its tough to build these installers, takes a month or so, and then the webhosts usually need time to test the installers. It works ok for slowly developing applications, but for applications that are under active development, not so much.
I guess you could liken it somewhat to the installation of the 1787 version of the Constitution without any of the subsequent amendments
Hi Jon! I don't know anything about Fantastico or how your host is set up, but is it possible for you to simply delete all that and download a fresh Moodle and and install it yourself?
It's pretty straightforward (for the most part), and you actually spend more time downloading and unpacking than you do interacting with the install (if I remember right). I've done it several times -initially with NO prior Moodle experience whatsoever - and I don't recall anything too weird. In fact, the last time was because I nearly lost my mind troubleshooting an issue, and a new install proved far less painful. We're even on a cheap web host from way back, who never heard of Moodle (though we're moving this month, as it's not a good Moodle environment).
Good luck!
Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that anyone should stop giving free support, I was trying to say something completely different - about low cost webhosts who put giant lists of open source products on their site for one low price and yet provide an old 'fantastico' installation -often these are broken for many of the products (not just Moodle, I've seen horribly broken installations of Mediawiki, PHPBB, Drupal, etc. as often).
But I've also seen many people spend many hours of time they could have saved by getting some help & I tried to suggest ways folks could tell if someone they were paying, who was not a partner, knew how to set up a read/write application.
Sorry if what I was trying to say came out came out wrong, I guess that is a danger of posting & trying to help for free, sometimes I'm going to make a mistake even with the best intentions (& with (my goodness) 452 pages worth of posts I guess I'm going to make a mistake now and then.
But I've also seen many people spend many hours of time they could have saved by getting some help & I tried to suggest ways folks could tell if someone they were paying, who was not a partner, knew how to set up a read/write application.
Sorry if what I was trying to say came out came out wrong, I guess that is a danger of posting & trying to help for free, sometimes I'm going to make a mistake even with the best intentions (& with (my goodness) 452 pages worth of posts I guess I'm going to make a mistake now and then
My host is webhostingbuzz.com. I have used Fantastico there to install many products, including Drupal and TikiWiki, with no problems. Their Fantastico installs Moodle 1.9, so it is at least fairly up to date on the version. I suspect something simple, so that if we can find and fix it, we can provide guidance to many others similarly situated.
Moodle should have a one-click installer. Most such products should have. We should not all have to pour through documentation just to get started.
Moodle should have a one-click installer. Most such products should have. We should not all have to pour through documentation just to get started.
If they are installing 1.9, their fantastico installation is pretty old, that may be the trouble.
They have instructions on how to install it manually it here:
http://www.webhostingbuzz.com/wiki/Install_moodle#Introducing_Moodle
They have instructions on how to install it manually it here:
http://www.webhostingbuzz.com/wiki/Install_moodle#Introducing_Moodle
Similar needs appear every week and many Particularly helpful Moodlers get private messages/emails from moodlers asking for help. I have never charged anything from my "free moodle support"
I am glad you said that. I too have never charged for advice/help given through this forum and through PM's. And there have been quite a few. I also get a lot of contact through the blog I run and also never charge. That's what being a Particularly Helpful Moodler is all about IMHO. What I love about this product is the community that has formed around it that goes out of its way to assist others.
I am glad you said that. I too have never charged for advice/help given through this forum and through PM's. And there have been quite a few. I also get a lot of contact through the blog I run and also never charge. That's what being a Particularly Helpful Moodler is all about IMHO. What I love about this product is the community that has formed around it that goes out of its way to assist others.
Firstly- I hope the original posters are finding answers to their problems. I know how frustrating technical issues can be.
And to add my two cents, I also love Moodle, the forum, Particularly Helpful Moodlers and what all of it represents. Jeremy Kemp (through Second Life Educators) introduced me to Moodle over two years ago and I've been trying to sell our school on it since. (Finally did it in September!) The school previously spent thousands on an OpenASC-based setup and basically ended up with a glorified database with no interactivity, and zero flexibility, functionality, personality and no room for growth.
In trying to learn a little about how OpenASC worked (which didn't help, as we ended up with is something vastly different), I also learned the OpenASC community is a tad bit envious of the community Moodle has evolved into: The comradery, ongoing development, common goals, and the desire to advance for the sake of academics and shared knowledge. By their own admission, Moodle far surpasses the structure, support and enthusiasm of their group. Their main forum board may stay quiet for days and is often generously peppered with business and hosting plugs.
What goes on here is truly something to be proud of, and I am proud it be part of it, even in the small way that I am. The talents, interests and projects are so widely-varied and take so many different forms that one is never bored, often impressed, and always learning something new.
With that diversity, of course, comes a wide range of users and a wide range of needs. Some Moodlers are more interested in visual design, programming, functionality, troubleshooting or even psychology. Some want to take Moodle apart to see what's inside, or see how far it will go, and they thrive on the challenges and milestones. Some users are forced to resolve problems or challenges themselves, either because of finances or a more-than-moderate case of OCD. Others have hallucinations at the sight of code, or can't spare the midnight hours to pour through resources or learn php. And still other users simply want to teach or develop a course.
I'm grateful this community provides so many options for such a diverse group of users. And it's important all these options and resources are (and remain) available, otherwise the reach and attraction narrow. The nature of Moodle as a living, evolving, open project demands 'free' and readily accessible resources. Without that, Moodle loses it's soul. Likewise, for people or organizations without the time or desire to learn the technical side of it, professional services will be demanded and are equally essential.
I'm continually amazed at the number of organizations, educators and researchers involved in this. In fact, that was one of my 'selling' points to my director - That this was not some packaged software written by a small team of programmers, boxed and shipped with a PDF handbook - This was something thousands of renowned universities, educators and researchers where building together using a marketplace of ideas and brilliant minds - minds that are often available to even the most novice user. How could you get a better product than that?
Nevertheless, I applaud everyone's efforts, contributions and services. I'm sure many a newbie has evolved into a Particularly Helpful Moodler, gone on to contribute to development, or beyond.
A few points (not directed at any specific poster:
- It is difficult to provide web host specific assistance without specific information about the webhost.
- Where there is a community of Moodle users on that web host you may get additional help here as well as additional support on your web host from that web host's Moodle users. For example, there are a number of Dreamhost users who hang out in the forums here as well as check the forums and wiki at DH. While DH is not the answer to all questions, it can be the solution to some as there are folks here willing to talk about DH and help others with DH problems where possible.
- Where folks do figure out the niceties of a specific web host it is nice when they create docs to address those peculiarities as well as share their experiences in the docs.
- I am sure there are quite a few folks here that make a few bucks here and there doing some consulting, whether for MPs or otherwise - this goes to underscore the argument that Moodle is not as easy to use as a hammer (and I have seen more than one Yahoo abusing a hammer....)
- More often than not the expectation is that in the open software arena everything is "free" - there is no such thing as a free lunch.... ever.
- As noted elsewhere, a recent poster mentioned they had spent $300 on a consultant (my guess is that this was not an MP) to get their Moodle fixed up, and the consultant left the site open to profile SPAM (undoubtedly because the client did not "ask" the consultant to do anything about it....)
- So how do you know what to ask for, etc.. One suggestion that has bounced about here is that one spend a considerable amount of time reading about Moodle BEFORE getting started.....
I'd like to weigh in on this debate from the point of view of someone who has used moodle as a teacher and as "the admin". I am not a Moodle partner and mostly work with small training organisations who have little experience of online training and almost no money initially.
I think Moodle is great but it is quite complex to deal with. I never use a fantastico install even if it is up to date , because it usually makes some stupid decision in the install process like a recent test I did where it made the data folder web accessible.
Also there is a huge difference b/w installing Moodle and configuring moodle to reflect the policies of your training institution. I do not claim to have specialised expertise in hosting hardware or php beyond the absolute basics, but having set up several moodle for clients, I realise now that it can take up to year of trial and error figuring out how they want to actually use moodle in their training enterprise. Clients initially don't seem able to understand which issues are pure tech and which are policy and they have to see it running and realise how to match moodle processes to their business procedures - things like authentication methods, ACL etc are meaningless to them initially. If they ask their IT support for help, it is often either incomprehensible to them or illinformed and irrelevant to using moodle as a education tool.
Lots of the support questions here come from people who just don't have enough experience in either the techie stuff or the online training stuff and it is damned hard to provide answers ina few paragraphs that will guide them successfully through their maiden voyage.
I think Moodle is great but it is quite complex to deal with. I never use a fantastico install even if it is up to date , because it usually makes some stupid decision in the install process like a recent test I did where it made the data folder web accessible.
Also there is a huge difference b/w installing Moodle and configuring moodle to reflect the policies of your training institution. I do not claim to have specialised expertise in hosting hardware or php beyond the absolute basics, but having set up several moodle for clients, I realise now that it can take up to year of trial and error figuring out how they want to actually use moodle in their training enterprise. Clients initially don't seem able to understand which issues are pure tech and which are policy and they have to see it running and realise how to match moodle processes to their business procedures - things like authentication methods, ACL etc are meaningless to them initially. If they ask their IT support for help, it is often either incomprehensible to them or illinformed and irrelevant to using moodle as a education tool.
Lots of the support questions here come from people who just don't have enough experience in either the techie stuff or the online training stuff and it is damned hard to provide answers ina few paragraphs that will guide them successfully through their maiden voyage.
While we say that Moodle is *relatively* straightforward to install and use (and I think it is), there are still some issues. It can't make you a server administrator (remember, you can get a well paid job out of knowing how to do that), it can't make you an instructional designer (ditto) and you have to be prepared to invest some time and effort in learning to use it effectively (and securely?).
Interestingly, it seems to be something that comes up more and more - especially as the number of options in Moodle increase - "that's a *policy* decision!".
Interestingly, it seems to be something that comes up more and more - especially as the number of options in Moodle increase - "that's a *policy* decision!".