Quiz

Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?

 
 
Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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That is actually a question with three parts:
  1. Is this the right direction for the quiz editing interface to evolve in?
  2. Is the code good enough? Has it been tested thoroughly enough? Does it meet the accessibility and other guidelines?
  3. Do Olli and I have enough time to get everything properly finished before the 2.0 release?
1. is really what I want to hear your opinions about. So far, the impression I have got from reading forum threads is that generally people who have looked like the work Olli has been doing. But I don't want to release this in Moodle 2.0, and then have lots of people turn round an complain that they hate it.

2. and 3. are more technical issues that are probably between Olli and me.

If you want more information about all this, see:
 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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I suppose I may as well put a link to Olli's demo directly here:
http://pilpi.net/software/moodle_quiz_ui/demo/
user: demo
password: demo
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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In the last months, I have take a look (2-3 times) at this project which appears a very good one.
This new forum post shows us that at this the project state, we should test it more thorougly.
So I go to the demo and do some tests.
However if the demo contains the last version, the project needs more testing and discussion. Here are some examples
  • , (i.e. if you create a calculated question using the select element in the quiz, then when I finish the question you don't return to the quiz, it it OK for the select element of the question bank (other question types are OK))
  • although color can be useful to distinguish things, the colors used do not respect the theme convention i.e. the blue box for questions at rigth.
  • should the tabs (edit, preview) contain also an image?
  • if you hide the question bank and create a question, as the category is not indicated in the quiz display, you don't know in which category you will create your question. The category name should be added (at the rigth of the select element?)
  • there is no syncronization between the category selected in the question bank and the initial category if you used the select element in the quiz display.
  • the question bank edit icon being in the text, if the name is too long you cannot edit the question.
  • the order edit and preview icons has been changed from the other moodle versions. Why?
I think that the testing should be completed before putting it in 2.0 and problems reported either here or in the tracker for CONTRIB.

Pierre
P.S.Sorry I will not be on Moodle the next ten days


 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Another comment;
on the quiz question display you can preview the question but you cannot edit the question.
So you need to turn the question bank on ( Show) and search the question category to be able to see the question ( I do not remember every time the category's question and some time it is in another course...) and then you will have the problem already mentioned in the preceding post) you cannot see the edit icon if the question name is too long.
More important :
The link to the question, category, import, export is lost.
demo


In reality I did not realize that the blue color of the question name are the blue color of a link that sent you to the question editing as there a no edit icon on it.
Effectively you can edit from the category bank .
I think that the link to the edit should not be done this way.
PIerre
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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This is just to notify that as I am moving to Metz, France on September 2nd, I will be rather quiet here in the forums for a while. I appreciate all the feedback you have given me so far, keep it coming. I will answer more thoroughly once I gain an internet connection in Metz.

Pierre,

Please understand that we are not claiming that this is a finished piece. At this point, we are mainly looking for the reaction to the concept of the new UI: whether it is the right direction to take with the UI. I understand that it is difficult to review an unfinished product: I am about to publish a usability testing report which also addresses many of the issues you have mentioned.

Kindly,
Olli
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Olli,
I am at the Montreal Film Festival seeing films from 9 am to midnigth and, as you, the Festival close on the 1th september.
I like very much the work done, I just think that it should stay in the CONTRIB as long as necessary to solved all the problems.
I wil be happy to suggest solutions although I think that you have more time to do Moodle code than me..

Pierre
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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I'm not closing, just my current funding is. smile

As I am doing my master's thesis about this project, I definitely will take the work to a closure.

To help make decisions about the Quiz UI, I just published the results of last week's usability testing in the newborn Quiz Usability portal. (Sorry, Tim about the delay, I thought this was going to finish already yesterday.)
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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However, this discussion let me study how I use the quiz interface and if the proposal answers all my needs.
In the first week of september, I should be able to detail my pratices i.e. document a scenario with some possible solutions.

For example
  • I don't see how I can add questions without having the question bank displayed,
  • why I cannot add a question between questions already in the test,
  • the add random questions should be put in the question bank just under the select to create a question and not at the end of the question bank,
  • etc.
So Olli don't answer readily on these, wait for a more structured comment.

Pierre

 
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Ray Lawrence
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
 
Having 2 places i.e. drop downs to create questions will be confusing for users IMO. Users add questions to the question bank which are then selected from and added to a quiz activity. This interface implies that questions are added to a quiz (rather than than question bank). This becomes more confusing to users when questions are shared across contexts.

I've not had chance to look at the interface in detail. This is an initial observation.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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I agrre with your comment.
Furthermore, there is no need to repeat question bank functions, you cannot really add questions in a quiz without the question bank.
Also, the question bank in the proposal is incomplete which is perhaps due to the incomplete nature of the actual proposal.

Pierre
 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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I asked the same question, and there is a reason. The question is burried in this long comment http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/CONTRIB-528?focusedCommentId=54788#action_54788, and Olli gives his answer in the reply. It's not the perfect interface, but I think it is the best we can do for now without bigger changes to how random questions work.

I don't see why Pierre says that the question bank is incomplete. Pierre, what do you think is missing?
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Ray, Pierre:
It is one of the fundamental ideas of this work that we cannot exclude the user group which does primarily quizzes and not question banks. Even if the user adds a question in the quiz directly, they can still choose the category of the question in the question editing screen. We have been through this discussion several times in the forums. For the basic reasoning behind this change, see Quiz UI redesign prototype presumptions from last spring. Testing this summer seems to suggest - though admittedly the test group was relatively small - that after getting used to the UI, users can make the distinction between adding questions to the question bank and adding them directly into a quiz.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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I reply here to Tim comments because of the identations.
Here is the actual HEAD display
actual_showbank.jpgactual

and the new one

actual

There a various differences and some of them has been commented in this forum thread.
Just note that even on the Olli demo site, the showbank is the regular one when accessed as edit questions.
Ollli will answered to them in the next days (moving, no computer connection etc.)
As we can test the new version on http://pilpi.net/software/moodle_quiz_ui/demo/moodle/, I think that the actual project could stay in CONTRIB to polish it before moving to HEAD.
Olli seems to agree to this and have to set how this project will be completed (contract ended, thesis).
So we should wait for further comments from Olli.

Pierre







 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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So, comparing the two screenshots, I can see two things that are currently missing from the revised question bank display:

The control for moving questions to a new category, and the option to display question text in the list.

And you can get both of these by clicking on the Question bank management link.

I think that we are inevitably going to have to move in the direction of having two different views onto the question bank. One that is optimised for adding questions to a quiz, and then the stand-alone question bank view that is used for organising questions, and doing more advanced sorting and filtering of them.

On the list of proposed features for Moodle 2.0 are tagging questions, relating questions to outcomes, and searching by question text, creator, modification time, full text search, .... There is no way all that will fit in the quiz editing screen, so I think we have to accept that in future, some things will only appear on the separate question bank view, while the display on the quiz editing page will be simpler, and therefore should be optimised for the task of building quizzes.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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"I think we have to accept that in future, some things will only appear on the separate question bank view, while the display on the quiz editing page will be simpler."

Effectively, this can come to a crowdy interface evenmore if some of the content is double as the actual Olli proposal .
There is also the problem of screen limits versus the quiz length or showbank length.
This is a real problem because Moodle does not use the old frames with the vertical scrolling.

As the proposal allows to hide or not the showbank, we should have only one showbank view and put on the page separators the specific quiz functions needs that could themselves be switch on or off.

Tim, can you list all the proposals that you think should be added to the quiz editing interface so that we can already figure how to display and manage them in the actual Olli proposal.

Pierre

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Fleshing out the roadmap for the quiz in Moodle 2.0 is the next thing on my todo list after finishing off the thing I am currently working on.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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(continuing ...)
However when adding questions to the quiz, we need the questions bank alongside the quiz display and, hopefully, without too much vertical scrolling if either the quiz or the showbank have a great length.
Could we think of having them in two separate windows: the showbank being in a pop-up window so that they can be managed easily on the user screen as we do when we copy and paste between two softwares or when editing this actual post using the enlarged wiew of the editor?
So the showbank being hide, alongside the quiz or in a pop-up window.

Pierre
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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I have been working on the final report for Kesäkoodi/COSS (the payer of my salary) for the past four days, and I just submitted it. I am starting to gather all the lists I have about what still needs to be worked on about the UI this Autumn.

The proposition is only incomplete in terms of the question bank - to make the UI consistent, also the Question Bank UI will need to have some similarity to the Question Bank window in Quiz editing, but its set of functionalities is of course different to a degree.

"As the proposal allows to hide or not the showbank, we should have only one showbank view and put on the page separators the specific quiz functions needs that could themselves be switch on or off."

I do not understand this sentence. You mean by showbank the Question Bank window on the right? I am guessing that you are suggesting to bring further modality to the user interface - the very general problem with modality is that all too often users do not find it. This was the case in the old quiz editing UI - "show page breaks" and "show reordering tool" buttons (earlier, checkboxes) in their current visual style just do not afford (have the affordance of) switchingmodes, but of triggering actions, so when users scan the UI, they miss them.

"There is also the problem of screen limits versus the quiz length or showbank length.
This is a real problem because Moodle does not use the old frames with the vertical scrolling. "

Again, I regret that I do not quite catch the point in these sentences. Why is this a problem? It is actually possible to mimic frames-type behavior of separate scrolling with CSS, I can't remember right now if something else besides overflow: scroll is needed.

Popups are in general adviced against, many users tend to lose track of multiple windows, especially if there are more browser windows besides these two open. This could be a feature for advanced users, though, but I think the communication between the windows requires javascript and I am not sure I see the benefits.

Tim,
"[...] I can see two things that are currently missing from the revised question bank display: The control for moving questions to a new category, and the option to display question text in the list. And you can get both of these by clicking on the Question bank management link."

To help teachers identify questions, some of the question text is displayed, too. However, the specification also includes tooltips for items - extended ones for question content - for which all the relevant information cannot be shown inline.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Olli
Thanks for your feedback.
If I resume my comments.
  1. When creating a quiz we need the questionbank to add questions or to create ones.
    The question bank can be different from the general question bank as we could add specific features to interface with quiz creation.
    However the visual question banks (quiz or general)should be identical as much as possible (i.e. same color, same way to access to functions).
  2. Either the quiz or the question bank can exceed vertically the screen size.
    This is why a vertical scolling or a pop-up could be usefull.
    OR
    Addding some question creating possibilities at the bottom of each pages as your prototype suggest.
    In this case, things should be named identically and the category where you put the questions selected through a select element.
Pierre
P.S. I think that further work on the quiz creating interface should be distinct of the report or thesis you are working on.
Could you explain more clearly about these possible constraints.

 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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The thesis work is indeed separate from the concrete development of quiz - the idea - at this point, anyway - is to examine usability in open source projects, and have this project as an example, so single design decisions will not directly affect the thesis work, anyway.

"things should be named identically"
Which things are you referring to here - they are not identical functions, after all, adding questions directly to quiz and to just the question bank?
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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As students can be allowed to create questions and quiz, the interface have to be reviewed as even in the actual code there is no consistency.
In the actual Question Bank "Create new question" is replaced by "Adding a question" when the user is in the question creating page and the upper tab is "Editing a question"!!!
I agree to put an add question possibility in the page tab and reviewing all the question creation and edition interface (texts, tabs, icon uses) should be part of the project.

We should first complete the list of the new features we want to add.

Pierre





 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Hi Pierre and others,

There is a list of planned development for the current UI at http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Quiz_UI_redesign_-_development , you might want to comment on that.

Indeed, the question bank has to be consistent with the quiz UI.

What is the use case for adding questions in the paging/reordering tab?
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Hi Olli,
"What is the use case for adding questions in the paging/reordering tab?"
not on paging/reordering page but on the edit page.

Pierre
P.S. I will look at the docs.
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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This is what I was replying to:
"I agree to put an add question possibility in the page tab"

And I assumed you are talking about the "Order and paging" tab in the new UI. The edit tab's page already has controls to add questions. Or which edit page are you talking about?
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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The main feature are an
  • edit quiz page with the shwowbank that can be switch off and question adding facilities in the page separators.
    This question adding facilities can be useful when the quiz contain many pages as the user don't have to scroll unnecessarily (and other reasosns).
    This is point to the agreement although the final display need to be setted.
  • and the "Order and paging" tab which I found very usefulsmile.
Pierre
 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Olli, you should be aware that I am planning some work on the question bank Development:Moodle_2.0_question_bank_improvements. I should probably include some UI mock-ups there, but have not done so yet. If you have any thought about the best way to do the interface of what I am planning there, I would be grateful for your input. Hopefully what I am proposing complements what your are doing, rather than interfering with it.
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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That seems great at first glance. I have not forgotten that you asked for ideas about the UIs for search and tagging, but I am not there yet.
  • there will be some UI at the bottom of the question preview page.
This might need a bit more attention. What functionality are you planning to place in the question preview? The problem of the question preview window is that it should reall be a preview: if there is anything there that is not actually what will be shown to the student, the distinction should be communicated visually and otherwise to make it clear. At the moment the preview screen has no distinction at all for what students see and what is teacher controls. This showed in the testing, too:
  • No. 32
  • Users: 3, 6
  • Task: 1
  • Issue: The single question preview confirmed the user's false belief that Question name equals question shown to student, by showing the question name as the heading of the preview window.

Solution 1: Attached is an initial idea of how to make this distinction
Solution 2: Just leave everything out from the window except what the student actually sees (except maybe the window title could have "preview question")
  • teachers may lose context if they miss the popup at first and find it underneath other windows later, though
    • but then, if the popup is not available when it is needed, the context-providing extra info in the popup is not going to help if the window is found later, when it is no longer needed
    • This would be solved by an YUI dialog which cannot be lost by the user
      • but an YUI dialog cannot be refreshed with browser's refresh button, so previewing random questions (seeing if they actually change on refresh) would not work.


This sounds like an ideal popup to implement using YUI Dialog (a.k.a. lightbox) to gain ideal level of modality:
  • clicking on the list of tags in the question bank view will pop up (JS on, go to if not) a simple question tagging form.


 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Tim and others,

The code for this project is getting really close to be ready for Moodle 2.0 HEAD in my opinion.

Before getting this into HEAD, there are several things in the coding side of things that need to be decided. Tim (or someone else who has an idea), if you wish you can just reply to these in the docs, but probably it would be best to see through them in a chat at some point. Any idea when you might have time? I understand you are away until 18th?

Master lists of issues that are blocking putting the code into head are now at
So it is not awfully much. I will try to solve those next week.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Hi Olli
Is your site contains the last version so that we can test and comment it?

Pierre

 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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You're quick! I remembered I should have done that after I had left the library yesterday. It is now online, as before, at http://pilpi.net/software/moodle_quiz_ui/demo/ (demo:demo)

Also, I added some further thoughts today to the development docs. It is not fatal, but still important to discuss. So this the most important of what I added today.

Discussion

  • Deleting/hiding questions: In the old quiz UI's question bank column, there are the checkboxes with the delete button and the "X" links to delete individual questions. I had assumed that they do the same thing: delete the question. But no, the link
    • only hides (archives?) the question
    • a question deleted this way can be restored only if the "show old [archived? hidden?] questions" is set, using the restore [undelete? unhide?] link that is in the place of the "X" link for "old questions".
      • alas, if there is any discussion/documentation/faint memories about how this came to be the situation, I would like to hear about them, as to make the decision which one the new UI should use, or should it for some reason have both the ways? in any case, the labeling is currently so inconsistent that something has to be changed.

Missing other changes

  • If the user has set "Questions per page" in the settings (update this quiz),
    • the functionality for paging should be disabled (greyed out)
    • a warning should be shown on the reorder&paging page explaining why paging cannot be edited
    • the paging displayed also on the edit page should be according to that setting
  • If the user has set "Shuffle questions " in the settings (update this quiz)
    • DONE the ordinals of the questions (implying specified order) should not be shown but a * in their place
    • the functionality for moving questions should be disabled (greyed out)
    • a warning should be shown on the reorder&paging page explaining why question order cannot be edited
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Not ready for 2.0
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I like some of the ideas that you put in this new interface.
However there are so many changes in the same project some good some less that changing all the moodle quiz interface in one step even in HEAD should not be done.
More options should be tested in different experimental sites so that each of them can be evaluated and add step by step.
This is a too large project for one person.
We could divide this task and explore.
This should be put in CONTRIB to continue the exploration.
Pierre
P.S. We... is there any other volunteers?
P.S. Tim last year set a lot of constraint related to add a new question type. I think we should follow the same rules before modifying this interface.
 
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wen photo
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Hi Tim, by the way this account is no longer working...
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Hi all,

I got to Metz a week ago and now everything is starting to settle down so much as to start thinking about getting some work done. I have learnt a lot of basic French and my flat has a yellow floor smile. People are veery nice, too, though they speak little English. All the better, so I will learn French, but it might be that after 9 months I will no longer speak english myself smile. So much for dreams about becoming a Moodle Usability Guy ;).

However, I have no internet at home but only at the university via eduroam to my home university, so I can only communicate in the daytime at the moment, though I will also work offline.

It's great that discussion has continued here. I have downloaded it and will review all your thoughts shortly.

It seems indeed that the demo server does not work at the moment, it may be because my account is over quota. I will look into it ASAP.
 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Great to hear that you are settling down. I have just been discovering what internet will cost me here in Perth, and it is more expensive than in the UK sad
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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The demo works now again. Seems that being over quota made it impossible to go to the course front page.

We have rumours in my residence that there will be an ADSL line turned into wifi for 10 euros / habitant, but we will see. I found an ad in a paper that someone sells bikes from 25€ to students, will have to see about that.


 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: not ready for 2.0
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Tim,(on return from your holidaywink).
After my last post saying that the actual project is not ready, I read again the initial post because I feel that there was a big misunderstanding.
So you wrote
That is actually a question with three parts:
  1. Is this the right direction for the quiz editing interface to evolve in?
  2. Is the code good enough? Has it been tested thoroughly enough? Does it meet the accessibility and other guidelines?
  3. Do Olli and I have enough time to get everything properly finished before the 2.0 release?
Actually my answers are the following
Is this the right direction for the quiz editing interface to evolve in?
In part yes but not totally and this would need a long response that I will not develop here. Understanding that for building a quiz you need first to build your questions and store them somewhere ( in convenient category) is a simple concept that is easy to understand even for students that can be allowed to create questions in 1.9.
  • The actual interface is easy to manage once you have locate the icons for preview, editing and delete. (moving through category or import export are complex process but not necessary for a first quiz.)
  • The actual interface does NOT meet accessibility guidelines the question bank being the main problem( this cannot be used easily with a sreen reader).
  • The actual interface become difficult to handle when you have a quiz that extend to many pages or that you need to manage from a large question bank.
Olli work has good ideas but we need a more complete prototype to test it. The interface is actually so "bizarre" that we don't know what we should really comment. The use of tabs with icons, there incoherence (your edit the quiz but don't have access t the "real question bank or import and if you access them you don't see how to get back to the quiz editing etc.)
Is the code good enough? NO
Has it been tested thoroughly enough? NO
Does it meet the accessibility and other guidelines? NO
Do Olli and I have enough time to get everything properly finished before the 2.0 release? You can answer this more than me.
I would suggest that the project be divided in clear objectives (sub projects) that can be put in 2.0 (or 2.1..) step by step but giving the time to test them.
For example the order and paging innovation is only the numbering way to more easily move question in a large quiz.The questions being listed in a more compact form.
Could this be done by using the advanced parameters feature of moodleforms in the edit page ?etc.


Pierre

P.S. I you think that I can help, I am willing as usual to be part of the project.






 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Olli and Tim,
Sorry I missed the CONTRIB-528 reference in this post sad and this explain some of my comments .
I will download the code and work on it so that I can illustrate on a test site my arguments..

Pierre


 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
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I read a great part of the docs reference and I did not find the reasons to include (and duplicate) the add question , add description/label and add random question in the page tabs.
These functions are already in the question bank and even the add description/label is a duplicate of the add question when you can select description.
My understanding is that this is related to a quiz creation workflow that could be

  • begin by creating the quiz
  • create questions in a category
  • add description/label (if you need them)
  • add random question (if you need them)
    • so the first thing is that you need to create a category to put your random questions, so when clicking to this you come to an interface to create a new category to put your random questions
    • You cannot go anywhere than to create the new category.
      • then you click to the add random, the new category is created and you are back to the edit page with a message saying that
      • This random question is not in use, since its category is empty.
        Add questions to the category pierre random in the 'Question bank contents' tool >>
Apart for some confusion ("add random question" should be "create a new category") this "creating a good quiz" scenario that originates mainly from the Olli study, can be more like "My First Quiz" scenario that allow to create a quiz without using the question showbank( the add random should be different).
It can be good for beginners but a nuisance for trained users and surely not as the regular interface qiven the "constructivism" option of Moodle.
I suggest that the buttons Add question, Add description and Add random category could be hide through the "advanced parameters" mechanism of moodle form so they can be hidden at will and show or not as default when the user come back to this page.
The "advanced parameters" should be renamed "hide the Add buttons".
For new user the buttons will show as default.
This quiz creating scenario is not my usual scenario and I don't want those buttons as the display vertical dimension become longer when you have long quizzes with many pages and you need to scroll a lot between the showbank and the quiz display.

Pierre
P.S. Displaying the number of available random question in the category and some of them is a plussmile

 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
Group Developers
Hi Pierre,

Thanks for your comments. I will try to acquaint myself with them as soon as I have time - it was months ago since all this was discussed, so it will take a while to return to my mind all the argumentation. I am quite surprised you come to think of questioning the whole foundation of the project when it is nearly finished, and not before. Perhaps Tim and others will have thoughts about this, as well.

Amicalement,
Olli
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
Group Developers
As you can see in the tracker (though it is not that clear), that patch is from August 20th. Currently the only up-to-date version of the code is visible in the demo - I have not uploaded the latest patch to the tracker yet, sorry about this. I will produce a more recent patch shortly.
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
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Just uploaded the latest patch to http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/CONTRIB-528.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
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I am not questioning the whole foundation of the project.
I just think that including the add question, add description and add random should be switchable at the user convenience.
I will NEVER use them as they work in the actual version because I work differently.
I build my questions first using the questions bank or the import-export question then I build the quiz.
I prefer to use the question bank creating interface because I am already in the good category when I create a question.
With large question banks, space is too precious on the screen that I want to switch off as many things as possible.
At my age, I don't want to be injured by mouse over clicking or unnecessary scrollingwink.
However your Edit and Ordering pages are OK.
Illustrating the random is a great feature.
Etc.

However the final product should conform to general moodle interface conventions and accessibility norm.
I think that the project should be quite polished either in the display as in its coding before CVS to HEAD.
If it was available as contrib so that we can CVS it, it will be easier to improve collectively.

Pierre

P.S.1 Perhaps I miss something in the docs or in the CONTRIB but I did not find an ordered list of the new features in a single place.
P.S.2 I finally retrace this on http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Quiz_UI_redesign_scenarios_-_conclusions

"The process of creating quiz content starts way before the teacher actually adds/writes the final questions in the actual quiz.

Since quizzes are usually part of a wider context (provided by a course of some sort), the first sketches of questions may be thought of by the teacher while they design the course or even before they have a concrete course.

  • Conclusion: The UI could support a much more direct, brainstorming-style workflow for the entry of questions:
    • Create quiz
    • Select question type
    • Click 'create question' -> the question box appears in the quiz with a note saying that necessary details need to be filled in before the question can appear in the actual quiz
    • Type question content directly in a text box inside the question box, right in the quiz editing screen
  • Issues: each question type would need an editing view of their own, to be quick enough this would require an AJAX backend in addition to the non-javascript implementation, an additional mode in the UI brings complications"
This confirm my understanding of the propose flow-chart.
However I have problems with the last proposal "
Type question content directly in a text box inside the question box, right in the quiz editing screen"
at least for the calculated question type which is a 3 pages process but also for the minimum screen size necessary to do this. We should not forget that Moodle is used all over the world and not every moodle user can access a 22 inches screen...
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
Group Developers
Pierre,

Thank you again for all your comments.

I welcome warmly your willingness to participate, I has been sad about how little cooperation with other members of the community this project has had - it is partially my fault, too. What do you think you could help with, in addition to giving your ideas?

Your basic tenet is right. Doing usability as an one-man project is simply not enough. If Moodle aims to be taken seriously also in the future, usability needs to be built into the development cycle. But before that is the case, this is the best I could do during one summer.

There are many outstanding issues, which in part Development:Quiz Usability portal/Where to go next with Quiz UI? Autumn 2008 tries to answer. In addition, there is the new tagging and searching functionality, which Tim is working on - the new design of the user interface for this functionality needs to be confirmed to be usable, too.

But more important than new features if we are to ensure quality, is testing, both usability and functionality wise, as well as other usability research: as a most basic instrument, the user groups should be defined and documented. Moodle really needs to have the basic usability documentation and it needs to be maintained. This is the time.

HEAD vs CONTRIB

I need to do the conversion of code from 1.9 to 2.0 soon, in order to concentrate move fully on my thesis work. The problem then is, who is going to do the conversion from the code in CONTRIB, branched from the current Moodle 2.0 codebase, to the by-then-changed codebase.

For me, the question of whether the code should be included in Moodle HEAD at a given time is a question of evaluating risk. In short, the question can be expressed as: Will the new user interface serve the needs of Moodle's user groups as well or better as the old interface? This can be further evaluated by measuring the improvement or possible degradation of different properties in old versus the new version: usability, accessibility, code quality, compatibility with browsers.

Risks

Are we taking a risk when committing Moodle to the new UI by migrating it to HEAD of Moodle 2.0? If yes, can we justify the risk to be small enough compared to the benefits achieved?

There are, broadly, two kinds of risks:
- the functionality (architecture, algorithms, data structures, amount of bugs), and
- the design of the user experience (from abstract to concrete: personas -> scenarios -> use cases -> user interface).

The new interface is by no means complete yet. Still, I have reasons to believe that it is, as a single whole, serving most users' need better than the old UI. And your arguments against this seem few.

So far the ways to assure quality are as follows.
  • To verify that the application has the correct functionality and workflow for the intended users, teachers, a small number of Finnish university-level teachers were interviewed about their working habits with exams, quizzes and the like. After that, feedback of the found scanarios was requested from the Moodle community. I should probably have made it easier for the community to take part since the discussion about the scenarios was not overwhelming - nevertheless, the process revealed some important aspects of teachers' work related to quizzes.
  • As this project is mainly about the user experience and not the underlying art of programming, my aim was not to introduce any major new functionality. This was also to reduce the risk introduced by the project: as major data structures have not been changed, issues can be nothing but local in the UI. I have not changed any major algorithm implementations or data structures, and where I have made minor modifications to them, I have been in what I think is a close enough cooperation with Tim Hunt.
  • The user interface was designed to comply better with heuristics, which are quite ubiquitous.
  • Where greater changes to the interaction have been made, they have been confirmed against the usage scenarios, and some of them have been also usability tested. Is your argumentation based on the test results, available in the docs?
  • I have also gathered feedback to all the changes during about half a year now (or if we count the first prototype, over a year) from the community.
I have discovered some things that still need to be fixed in the new UI in order to bring it to par with the old one, but they do not constitute a significant risk to me: improving things like keyboard navigation and tooltips, though important, do not require major changes to the logic of even the UI level, and can thus be added while the code is in HEAD.

"This is a too large project for one person."

What project in this world isn't? However, this is a fallacy (false argument): you can not judge how good something is by the number of people that have participated in it. Often, the contrary: it is a well-known fact of the software industry that it rarely helps a software project to just add more programmers.

However, I have cooperated closely with the Moodle community and one would think most the choices made have been confirmed by this point. I do not see any crucial compromise having been made. You do have the code available for testing already in the tracker. If testing is what you think more people are required for - putting code into CONTRIB does not seem helpful in this respect? Of course, once the code goes into head, fixes can be made by others, too.

"Has it been tested thoroughly enough? NO"

I warmly welcome you to find more people to do usability testing in Moodle.

But when it comes to functional testing, the functionality has changed very little in itself. For the most part, functionality that worked in Moodle 1.9 still works in 2.0 since it has not changed. I do not question that more testing needs to be carried out but I regard the code of sufficient quality to be tested in HEAD by as wide an audience as possible to really iron out as many bugs as possible.

Rights management is one area where, though I meant to make no functional changes, it needs to be confirmed that everything is still in place.

The software has been tested on Firefox3, Opera9 and IE6 - if bugs are discovered on Safari or other versions of the aforementioned browsers, bugs on that level should be relatively easy to fix, if not otherwise then by browser-specific CSS.

Compatibility of javascript is a risk on IE7 and Safari, since those have not been tested.

"However the final product should conform to general moodle interface conventions and accessibility norm.
I think that the project should be quite polished either in the display as in its coding before CVS to HEAD.
If it was available as contrib so that we can CVS it, it will be easier to improve collectively. "

You are being very general about the "conventions". What general Moodle interface conditions does it not conform to? A lot has already been done to make it conform, and I still have not found any documentation of such conventions. What would you want to improve collectively if it were in CONTRIB?

Dividing the project in pieces

"I would suggest that the project be divided in clear objectives (sub projects) that can be put in 2.0 (or 2.1..) step by step but giving the time to test them."

This I could not disagree more with - the user experience, although affected by all the details and elements of the UI, is in essence one whole. This I have explained already in Why can't we just make smaller fixes to the current ui? - in short, it does not make sense to do that, when the entire conceptual model is wrong and the UI is speaking a language foreign to the user. And on the other hand, even if we can redesign the UI to use a conceptual system more natural to novices, the advantage can be sabotaged if the elements of the UI violate user expectations too badly - whether this is the case can be evaluated for example by aligning the UI with usability heuristics.

In other words: I am not sure what the sub-projects would really be. The vast majority of the changes are not on the level of features, but instead only the UI has been changed, and the usability of the UI has already been tested - unless there is a plan to do more extensive *usability* testing, I see no reason to divide the project, since as the UI is a single whole it would risk breaking the usability of the entire UI to divide it into pieces.

"For example the order and paging innovation is only the numbering way to more easily move question in a large quiz.The questions being listed in a more compact form.
Could this be done by using the advanced parameters feature of moodleforms in the edit page ?etc."

The UI is not based on moodleforms (PEAR QuickForm) since it is not quite flexible enough.

"For example the order and paging innovation is only the numbering way to more easily move question in a large quiz."

I do not understand this sentence. If you wish, you can express it in french so I can try to retranslate it, too? I hope you understand that this is not to criticize your English, but just to try to understand what is it that you want to say.

Accessibility

"Does it meet the accessibility and other guidelines? NO"
" The actual interface does NOT meet accessibility guidelines the question bank being the main problem( this cannot be used easily with a sreen reader)."

The question to ask in my opinion is whether the previous question bank did, either? If it did not, the new one is just improvement and although it is indeed crucial to make the changes involved to making the UI accessible, this is not related to the question of whether or not to move the new UI to HEAD: since no change has been made, no new risk is related to the new UI compared to the old UI. So my question is: where is the new UI _worse_ than the old one in terms of accessibility?

There are some relatively trivial TODOs in the development docs related to keyboard usage already waiting to be implemented, but I invite you to inspect the accessibility more profoundly since though I understand the fundamentals, I am not an expert at accessibility.

Replies to further comments

"The use of tabs with icons, there incoherence (your edit the quiz but don't have access t the "real question bank or import and if you access them you don't see how to get back to the quiz editing "

Access to the real question bank has been included in the new UI since early prototypes, as a simple link. This has also been in part addressed at ..., but Tim argues that links to Question bank and back are enough. What do you think?

The icons have been removed for IE in the newest version so the visual presentation of the tabs is no longer broken by IE. In other browsers it seems to work. However, in terms of usability it is useful to associate the icon with the term it is related to (edit, preview) so that users can easily comprehend the meaning of the icon when used elsewhere in the tab, too. This could be used in other parts of Moodle, too, in my opinion.

(I am also surprised that Moodle's login screen is fatally incompatible with IE 5, but this is unrelated)

"Understanding that for building a quiz you need first to build your questions and store them somewhere ( in convenient category) is a simple concept that is easy to understand even for students that can be allowed to create questions in 1.9."

And it is a concept supported by the new UI as well as the old one.

"However I have problems with the last proposal "Type question content directly in a text box inside the question box, right in the quiz editing screen"
at least for the calculated question type which is a 3 pages process but also for the minimum screen size necessary to do this. We should not forget that Moodle is used all over the world and not every moodle user can access a 22 inches screen..."

As you can see in the final product, inplace editing was not implemented at this time. The purpose was not to allow editing all the options of a question but just the question text, but there are several issues with even this, both technical and usability wise, so it was left out.

"P.S. Tim last year set a lot of constraint related to add a new question type. I think we should follow the same rules before modifying this interface."

Can you please provide a link so that I can check this out?

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
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Wow! good post. Before I respond, I want to provide a bit of context.

Martin D is in the middle of a 5-Moodle-Moot bender (his description wink, that's Brisbane, Napier NZ, Oman, Rome and Barcelona). Anyone who meets Martin at any of those Moots will quickly discover that Usability is soon going to be number one priority (once files API, new wiki, and the other functional changes on the 2.0 roadmap are out of the way). One of the things on Martin's todo list is to add some useability guidelines to the coding guidelines.

It is not just Martin/Moodle HQ thinking about this. There was a great talk at Brisbane by Daniel Woo from University of New South Wales talking about some work they had done in their usability lab using eye-tracking to investigate Moodle usability. Both Martin and I were sitting there cringing, and I think Martin was on the wireless adding bugs to the tracker wink

Lots of people in the Moodle community use Macs, and other nicely designed tools and web sites. We know a good interface when we see one. For the last several realeases there has been too much emphasis on adding new features to Moodle, without enough though about the effect that has on the interface. We accept that the interface needs work.

So Olli's work is coming along at very appropriate time, and expect more of the same in future.

Having said all that, another of the talks at Brisbane was comparing Moodle and Blackboard. For example, comparing the number of mouse-clicks that it took to add a forum to a course, or make a post in that forum. The counts were dramatically in Moodle's favour.
 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
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Dividing the project into phases

Actually, I see Olli's work as just a phase of a larger project. Olli has dealt with the quiz editing screen, taking what I think is a big step in the right direction, and taking us to an place that is self-consistent and easy to use. However, at some point we also need to improve the forms for editing individual questions; and we could do further work following on from Jamie's, for example introducing drag and drop for reordering questions. Also, it would be nice to improve the huge quiz settings form.

Too big for one person?

I think this change is smaller than the changes Jamie did the the question bank for Moodle 1.9, and that was a one-person job. So I don't see a problem here.

Accessibility

Is important, and most of the worst problems are inherited from the old interface. If anyone spots specific ways that the new interface is less accessible that the old one, that should be considered a bug. Please file a bug in the tracker with details.

Head vs Contrib

My argument with question types is adding a new question type to core is an additional long-term commitement to support additional code, installing a question type from contrib is quite easy, and since the code for a question-type is self-contained, maintaining them separately from core is managable. Therefore it is right to err on the side of caution and leave new question types in contib until we have a body of evidence that the new question types are useful to a wide range of people, and they work reliably on a range of platforms.

For the quiz editing interface, this is a large patch to core quiz code, so maintaining it separately would be a nightmare. And if we adopt it into core, we no longer have to support the old interface in the future, so it is not an additional maintenance commitment.

Risks and when this should go in to 2.0

Now I am back from holdiay, I want to hook up with Olli on Skype to discuss this in a bit more depth (are you around later today or tomorrow Olli?)

As I said above, I think Olli's work is a bit step in the right direction, and where it is currently is self-consistant. Therefore I think it should go into Moodle 2.0.

That being the case, the way to reduce the risk is to integrate this into Moodle 2.0 sooner rather than later. That way we maximise the amount of testing it receives before the release, and gives us the maximum amount of time to fix the bugs that are found. Development:Quiz_UI_redesign_-_development shows that we are fairly close to being feature-complete, but there is still some work to do. Do we need to wait until we are closer to being feature complete before merging, or not? Anyway, the three large-scale tasks to be done are
  • Finish off the features and clean up the code.
  • Merge into 2.0.
  • Test lots and fix the problems found.
I should probably also review the latest patch attached to CONTRIB-528.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: HEAD vs Contrib
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Head vs Contrib

My comment was that what you call "Finish off the features and clean up the code." can be more easily done if the code is in a contrib directory.
This done, I agree to put it on 2.0.

Pierre
P.S. There are also concerns about Olli comment "I need to do the conversion of code from 1.9 to 2.0 soon, in order to concentrate move fully on my thesis work."
p.S. I have ask for a contrib directory( CONTRIB-802 )before seing your comments.
 
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Anthony Borrow
Re: HEAD vs Contrib
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Pierre - Just let me know by commenting on CONTRIB-802 if we actually want this created. Please feel free to nudge me if needed. Peace - Anthony
 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: HEAD vs Contrib
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Olli is currently managing the development in his own Subversion repository, and attaching occasional patches to CONTRIB-528. That is not ideal, but is probably good enough for now.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Too big for a person
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"Too big for one person?

I think this change is smaller than the changes Jamie did the the question bank for Moodle 1.9, and that was a one-person job. So I don't see a problem here."

Jamie did a super job but was on a full time basis on this project I think and the plan was to apply a specific and well defined design to all the questions.
Olli have no such disponibility ( thesis work) and the design is being constantly defined and tested either on the screen display, functions and coding.
for example.
http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Quiz_Usability_portal/Where_to_go_next_with_Quiz_UI%3F_Autumn_2008

I think that we could divide this project in different parts that could be applied to 2.0 one after the other.
Actually in the actual prototype the only reason for an experienced moodle user to use the edit page is that the grade are not on the order and paging page.
If we put the grade on the order and paging, this could become the advanced user edit page and the proposed edit could be the beginner edit page.
The beginner edit functions available at each quiz page can be expanded to cover the accessibility needs for disabled users.
The new question bank could be introduce later in the project.

Pierre

 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: Too big for a person
Group Developers

"Olli have no such disponibility ( thesis work) and the design is being constantly defined and tested either on the screen display, functions and coding."

The page you refer to is not a proposal to change the work done this summer, as that work is complete. As the page itself says:
"To continue from where we are leaving off on Quiz UI redesign, I propose the following UI changes for Quiz navigation."

That is, they are suggestions. Since usability testing was carried out in the end and suggested changes, I present those suggested, possible future changes in this document, since I am fully aware that on a bigger perspective, there is still a lot to work on in the UI. Those suggestions, however, are not a part of the project Quiz UI redesign of Summer 2008 (there is no link on that project page to the page you refer to) and never were.

The work of this summer has indeed been defined and constrained, and is as finished as you would expect a project like this to be at this point. The implementation was indeed done according to that specification to the degree that made sense - since I conducted usability testing throughout the project, I of course made the improvements suggested by the testing.

That said, I do wish I had resources to do the documentation more thoroughly, reflecting each change in the documentation more vigorously.

 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
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Thanks Tim,
I will be available online tomorrow Wednesday starting 13:30 French time (now is that GMT+1 or GMT+2 I am not sure, I am posting this at 17:40 French time so that should help sort out the difference).
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
Group Developers
I guess it was too late for you today since I could not reach you. How about Friday, 9:15 in my time, that is 15:15 in your time?
 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
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That sounds good.
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
Group Developers
Add random question could perhaps be "create new random question", to imply that an empty random question is indeed being created. But it would be completely wrong to call it "create new category", it does not only create a category but a random question, too, and this would defeat the purpose of having the button in the first place. The key idea of the button is to allow creating random questions directly into the quiz. In the tests, although the set of concepts was still difficult to users, using this UI total novice users created random questions to a quiz and seemingly learned the concepts while doing - though the test results are, again, only suggestive.

"The actual interface become difficult to handle when you have a quiz that extend to many pages or that you need to manage from a large question bank."

This is one of the reasons the ordering/paging tab is there for: it also retains the compactness of the old UI so if your use case resembles managing a question bank more than creating individual quizzes, the ordering/paging tab will work better for you.

So: If tooltips, showing further info about questions, were added to also the reorder/paging tab, could you not just use that tab to avoid seeing the buttons that are taking too much space? Do you think that Moodle should remember which of the edit tabs you last used - if you used the reordering tab, always return you to the reordering tab when selecting the edit tab?

"I suggest that the buttons Add question, Add description and Add random category could be hide through the "advanced parameters" mechanism of moodle form so they can be hidden at will and show or not as default when the user come back to this page.
The "advanced parameters" should be renamed "hide the Add buttons".
For new user the buttons will show as default."

In the UI there currently is no place for an UI-level setting like this. One choice is to include a link to hide the buttons next to the buttons themselves, but this will obviously add clutter - to which degree depends on the graphical skills of the one who implements it. So where in the page do you suggest to have this setting, in a fashion in which it would reduce clutter, and not add more of it?
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: setting a contrib
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Hi Olli

HEAD vs CONTRIB

I need to do the conversion of code from 1.9 to 2.0 soon, in order to concentrate move fully on my thesis work. The problem then is, who is going to do the conversion from the code in CONTRIB, branched from the current Moodle 2.0 codebase, to the by-then-changed codebase.
"to concentrate move fully on my thesis work"
You are a student and I am an "old" professor so concentrate on your thesis and let other do moodle community work.
I think I can do most of the necessary changes from 1.9 to 2.0 at least for the db new functions.
If you have not done it, we should contact Anthony Borrow to set a contrib directory where we could put the code.
We could agree to a Moodle 2.0 site that reflects the actual state of the project either on yours or on a UQAM server.

When we feel that almost everything is set(i.e. the visual display and the main coding), it could migrate to official Moodle HEAD.

Pierre
P.S. first reactions...


 
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Anthony Borrow
Re: setting a contrib
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Pierre - With Olli's code is the plan for it to start in CONTRIB and then be considered for inclusion in CORE for Moodle 2.0? I forget the history on this project. I remember that Olli did some great work and I liked what I saw but I need a refresher on the game plan. Just let me know what you need on the CONTRIB side by creating an issue in the tracker and we will take care of it with Olli and I both remaining clearly focused on our Masters degrees wink Peace - Anthony
 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: The page (add question ...) buttons should be switchable on-off
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Just thinking about big quizzes, we could add JavaScript [Show]/[Hide] links under the page 1, page 2, ... labels, to allow some pages to be minimised while you are working on others.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: create random question
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"Add random question could perhaps be "create new random question", to imply that an empty random question is indeed being created. But it would be completely wrong to call it "create new category", it does not only create a category but a random question, too, and this would defeat the purpose of having the button in the first place. The key idea of the button is to allow creating random questions directly into the quiz. In the tests, although the set of concepts was still difficult to users, using this UI total novice users created random questions to a quiz and seemingly learned the concepts while doing - though the test results are, again, only suggestive."

However in the actual project when the user click on the add random question button, a window appears with the following text.

Create a question category for the new random question
There is no other issue than to create a new category by clicking to the add random question button. The new category name is mandatory, you cannot choose an existing category.

Pierre
 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: create random question
Group Developers
Having an option to choose an existing category in the dialog was usability tested at one point in the project, but since this is functionality for novice users, it turned out that it is more confusing to have further options in the dialog (for selecting an existing category). Experienced users still have the functionality familiar from the old UI for adding random questions from existing categories.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: create random question
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Hi Olli,
The more I look at your remarks about your usability tested interface and "functionality for novice users" the more I agree that your interface is correct for new users.
"Experienced users still have the functionality familiar from the old UI for adding random questions from existing categories."
Could we agree to give the user two choices i.e. between something like a "my first quiz" interface and "experience user" interface?
Pierre

P.S.The "experience user" interface could be your ordering and paging with the question grade setting interface added...

 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: create random question
Group Developers
So what in practice would you change from the current UI? I still do not see why having the buttons to add questions directly into quiz harm you so much.

One idea that has been proposed has been to turn the "add question" into a single button both in question bank and in the quiz. This would simplify further the UI itself. The button would launch a dialog for selecting a question type, with an explanation of the currently selected question type - and separate choices to create a random question or a "description"/label/help text. What do you think?

To highlight another proposed change for Moodle, which is critical and would perhaps need to be created Attempted quiz enabling UI which adresses another very severe usability issue with Moodle Quiz.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: create random question
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Hi Olli,
I realize that the less scrolling I have to do, the better is the interface. This is why I prefer the order and paging because I don't loose precious space to buttons between pages or explanation of the question type icons which is unnecesary when your not at your first experiences with quiz building.
So the order and interface suit me well if you could put the question grades.
Your gray border is better than the actual display as other details.

However you should have consistent question info display between the quiz and the question bank.(i.e. question type icon, question name, edit and preview).
I don't know what your study show but the actual order
Order # Question name Type Grade Action
is not so bad. Did your test showed that these column titles should be removed?

Your Attempted quiz is a real problem and you should continue on this.
Effectively the teacher has to test if everything is OK and should be able to add or remove. Your option of saving as a new quiz could be interesting.

"add question" into a single button both in question bank and in the quiz. This would simplify further the UI itself. The button would launch a dialog for selecting a question type, with an explanation of the currently selected question type - and separate choices to create a random question or a "description"/label/help text.
OK for the newcomer but not as the only interface to add a question.
If for the newcomer, why put this on the question bank?.

Pierre

P.S. Putting the edit and preview icon at the end of the text made them disappear if the screen is not sufficient large. Not all Moodle users have large screens...

 
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Picture of Olli Savolainen
Re: create random question
Group Developers
The most typical bias with software design is that developers assume that all users are like them. To see the new UI exclusively as one for novice users is a very single-minded way to see the usage of quiz: there is a distinct quiz-centered user group for quiz that does not need the extensive question bank features of Quiz, and to whom it is important to access the quiz directly and to see what content really is in the quiz, at a glance. Not all of these users are beginners, they just do not have the exact needs you do.

It is not feasible to add the grading view to the current reordering tab without making the reordering tab seriously bloated and without breaking its current model. Also, it breaks the current model of the tabs, and grading seems a task that can be done separately from organizing the questions in the quiz layout. Though admittedly, the new approach is not ideal for your use case, I do not see it posing a serious compromise to usability either.

The reason the tables (end thus, also the headers) were removed from the editing UI is that they seem completely unnecessary, adding bloat. The testing proved the current UI to be effective to the degree that novice users found what they needed with relative ease.

The data presented is not really tabular data, anyway (but simply a list with UI elements), so I did not see a justification to keep them, as using a table seems wrong in the first place - in the question bank it is only justified by the fact that the UI seems easiest to implement this way, (though CSS gurus may disagree) and it was implemented so already - I did not see it worth the trouble to change it.

"add question" into a single button both in question bank and in the quiz. This would simplify further the UI itself. The button would launch a dialog for selecting a question type, with an explanation of the currently selected question type - and separate choices to create a random question or a "description"/label/help text.
OK for the newcomer but not as the only interface to add a question.
If for the newcomer, why put this on the question bank?.

As discussed above, the new UI is not exclusively for the newcomer, but serves the workflow of a quiz-centered user, in contrast to the question bank centered user. Both user groups can well use random questions, so you need to be capable of adding questions to random question categories.

P.S. Putting the edit and preview icon at the end of the text made them disappear if the screen is not sufficient large. Not all Moodle users have large screens...

My screen is 1024x768, so hardly big smile. The preview icon should definitely not disappear under any circumstances, what browser is this happening in? In the 1.9 version of the new UI the edit icon was made to disappear to give room to the question name/text, but this was changed in the patch to Moodle 2.0 for various reasons:

Decided to take the links to question edit pages out of the question bank window, since it is a form in essense (operating with checkboxes).

The previous solution was based on two factors: since there is a logical single action for a question, it should be a direct link. Also, since editing was enabled through a link already, I considered that the edit icon should not take extra room from the question text, which did not have much room anyway. So in case the question text was longer than extremely short, the question editing icon would not show.

However, this caused several issues:
  • although the question names were also <label>s for the checkboxes, you could not click the label to check the box since the label was also a link (this applies also to the reordering tab)
  • "random" (according to question length) disappearing of the question editing icon made the UI inconsistent.
So the solution was to take the editing links out and to make the edit icons always visible, since editing using the edit icon is consistent across Moodle.

Also, the question icon, being in the column after the question text, was detached from the question text and was inconsistent with the rest of the UI (where the icon is shown close to the beginning of the question text), making it hard to see quickly of which type the question is. So the qtype icon was moved to the beginning of the question text.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: create random question
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These changes seems OK and I will give further comments when they will be available on the new demo 2.0 site.

Pierre

.
 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Just to keep people informed. I spent all of today reviewing the code, which Olli has now got ready to go into Moodle 2.0 dev. It is looking good. I want to do some more testing tomorrow, then I will probably commit it. If you want to follow developments, the place to watch is MDL-17284.
 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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It's done. Testing welcome.
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
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Thanks Olli and Tim,

Well done and a lot of differences from the version on the demo site.


Here some details
On the Order and paging the preview and edit icons are grouped and they do not disappear if the question text is long (good). The edit icon disappears when on the Edit display(bad).

The link i.e Moodle>Course>Quizzes>quizname>Editing quiz is always there even when you edit a question(good). But then Update the quiz button is also there which can be confusing.

When you click to the question bank management link , you are in a different world without any visible link to quiz editing (bad).

For newcomers this is a great progress, as a more experienced user the Order and paging is my favorite interface. Once everything is set for a quiz, I will go to the Edit display and fix the grades.

Pierre



 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Should Olli's new quiz editing interface be included in Moodle 2.0?
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers
When you click to the question bank management link , you are in a different world without any visible link to quiz editing (bad).

We are aware of this one, and it will be fixed before the Moodle 2.0 release - but remember the question bank page is due for more work anyway. Development:Moodle_2.0_question_bank_improvements
 
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