What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by W Page -
Number of replies: 16
Hello All!

This is more of a request for information so I can broaden my knowledge of document management systems (DMS).

Can someone please explain to me what WebDav is about? I have visited the WebDav web site but it is still not clear to me why people use this as a DMS. There is so much stuff there it is hard to wade through. I still could not determine clearly what WebDav is.
  • Why someone would want to use it as their document management system??
  • What does it do for the webmaster??
  • What does it do for the site visitor??
  • How does it help maintain files??
  • How easy is it to set up??
  • Is it something that is good enough to be included in the pending MyDMS for Moodle??
  • Is it really a CVS??

I hear a lot about this WebDav as I surf sites, but I do not really understand it's worth or it's PROs and CONs.

Anyone who can explain WebDav in "layman's terms" and not "IT" or "Techie" terms please help me out with this?

I enjoy playing with MyDMS for Moodle. Again, this is just for information.

Thanks in advance for any and all responses.

WP1
Average of ratings: -
In reply to W Page

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by Zbigniew Fiedorowicz -
From the user perspective, one benefit of WebDav is that Internet Explorer provides a Windows Explorer-like interface to the file space on a WebDav enabled web server.  Thus instead of selecting from menus and clicking on buttons, one can copy files/folders between the client and server by dragging file icons with a mouse, just the way you would move files/folders on your desktop computer.  See for instance http://www.infinisource.com/windows98/ie50-121.shtml
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Zbigniew Fiedorowicz

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by W Page -
Hi Zbigniew!

Thanks for responding.  I am familliar with using "Web Folders" in a "drag and drop" fashion but I did not know it had anything to do WebDav.  Also, I did not know that WebDav was a special type of server.  Or can it be turned on and off?  Also must one be running a Window's  server to run WebDav?

WP1
Average of ratings: -
In reply to W Page

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by Zbigniew Fiedorowicz -
WebDav is an extension of the HTTP protocol used for communication between client browsers and web servers. It is an open standard, which can be implemented on Unix servers as well as Windows servers.

Originally Microsoft provided the Web Folder interface only for Windows web servers using a proprietary Microsoft protocol, but then they extended it to WebDav enabled servers (probably due to pressure from the antitrust suits).

I should add that one of the major selling points of the latest versions of WebCT (and also Blackboard, if I remember correctly) is that they are WebDav enabled and thus provide a Web Folder interface for uploading/downloading files.  WebCT and Blackboard run on both Windows and Unix servers.
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Zbigniew Fiedorowicz

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by Jan Dierckx -
Are there any plans on integrating WebDav into Moodle's DMS ?
It would be a lot easier to persuade my colleagues to start using Moodle if they could access it immediately from inside Word or Excel.
Am I right? When saving something in Word or Excel, there would be one of the folders called something like "Moodle DMS" and when a user selects this folder he'd get a login screen and the file would magically end up in his part of the Moodle DMS?
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Jan Dierckx

What is the status of DMS

by Ger Tielemans -

CVS and Webdav are systems that share files according RULES

DMS manages files according RULES

So what is the current status of Moodles DMS and where are the RULES for that manager coming from and/or are they organised?

To make a comparison: if I open a file for editing in the eWIKI of Moodle  all the other users of eWiki will see a blocked page, until I give it free again. Very, very nice..

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ger Tielemans

Re: What is the status of DMS

by W Page -
Subtle but real differences. What is clear however, is the difference would still allow for the use of WebDAV with the present DMS proposed for Moodle. It seems to essentially depend on the server.

WP1
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Jan Dierckx

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by Bob Boufford -

Hi,

I know I'm wandering in a little late but wanted to give some comments based on my experiences with WebDAV in WebCT Campus Edition and Vista.

WebDAV does not have to be bound to a document management system. In WebCT, WebDAV is used to access the files and folders in a course's Manage Files (CE) or File Manager (Vista) through the operating system's file manager (Windows Explorer, Mac Finder) instead of a web page. The equivalent in Moodle would be WebDAV access to the "Files..." area of a course.

With WebDAV, there is no need to zip a collection of files together to get around the limitation of "one file at a time" uploads through a web page as we have now in Moodle "Files...".With WebDAV, one can just drag-n-drop files and folders. Since the inclusion of WebDAV in WebCT, it has been much more pleasant moving files between a local system and the course file space. Some applications such as Dreamweaver also take advantage of WebDAV so files on the server can be directly accessed by the application.

Ideally, I would like to see WebDAV incorporated into Moodle so an instructor can have access to a course Files... regardless of a DMS for student use in collaborative file sharing as part of a group project.

Cheers,

Bob

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Bob Boufford

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by Kingsley Kerce -
Excellent information, Bob. I would also like to see WebDAV integrated into Moodle. I have been developing instructional systems with WebDAV functionality for a couple of years, and I am glad to contribute to the Moodle effort.

Everyone, please note that most issues related to DMSs have been addressed by IETF working groups since at least 1998. There are considered specifications for versioning, access control, searching, and ordering of resources. Many of the specs have been implemented, and the software is present in many open source and commercial offerings. Why reinvent? See webdav.org for more info.

Kings


Average of ratings: -
In reply to Kingsley Kerce

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS?? - Is pseudo WebDAV possible??

by W Page -
Hello All!

Is a pseudo kind of WebDAV possible?

Is there a way to create (or a script that will do this) a pseudo Explorer type interface so someone using a web site would be able to interact with site files as if in a "WebDAV" type of environment? That is, drag and drop environment?

Is it possible to create something like this on a PHP based web site?

The reason I am asking is that I have not found an affordable web host yet that offers WebDAV.

WP1
Average of ratings: -
In reply to W Page

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS?? - Is pseudo WebDAV possible??

by Bob Boufford -

W.

I work with a few "pseudo Explorer" file browsers where one could interact more extensively with files including multiple file/folder selection for copying and moving. Unfortunately, they are Java applets. IMHO, Java is getting to be bloated problem child and would not like to see any Java as part of Moodle functionality.

Bob

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Kingsley Kerce

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Thanks, Kingsley ... I would love to take advantage of these, but none of these seems  to be a complete solution that we need.

With your experience, perhaps you can help us find a solution that
  •  is open source
  •  supports WebDAV clients
  •  works on average webhosts (PHP preferred)
  •  can have authentication integrated with Moodle
  •  has a nice web-based GUI for access control, quotas, versions etc
 
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by W Page -
It's great when you know what you are talking about or trying to say.  Makes one summarize things in a clear fashion. 

Thanks Martin!

WP1
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by Kingsley Kerce -
Hi Martin -- I'm confident that your first three requirements (open source, works with existing WebDAV clients, and works on average web servers with PHP) are easily met.  The remaining requirements (integrated authentication/authorization, GUI) are where the work lies.  I will do my best to research possible solutions and then report back here.  Existing project commitments will delay me at least a week.

Meanwhile, I would love to hear others' thoughts on the authentication/authorization and GUI requirements.

Kings

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by Kingsley Kerce -
I located two open source, PHP-based implementations of WebDAV servers: HTTP_WebDAV_Server and eZ publish. Unfortunately, neither currently include support for access control, versioning, or searching.

On the bright side, however, at least two other open source projects currently support -- or have announced development of -- WebDAV access control, versioning, and searching: Jakarta Slide (Java-based) and Catacomb (C-based).

So, for some enterprising PHP developer, the Jakarta Slide and Catacomb projects could serve as reference implementations for extending one of the PHP-based WebDAV projects, HTTP_WebDAV_Server or eZ publish.

Integration of Moodle and WebDAV authentication and authorization mechanisms should probably wait until Moodle 2.x stabilizes.

I've not yet seen a GUI (web-based or otherwise) for WebDAV access control, versioning, etc. This would be a major undertaking.

Arguably, in the meantime, Moodle could benefit from a custom hack which integrates basic WebDAV functionality. I expect to concentrate on this approach.

Comments welcome...

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Kingsley Kerce

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by W Page -
Hi Kingsley!!

Thanks for undertaking this. 

I was just wondering, could there be a Flash solution for the GUI (a pseudo WebDav interface)???

WP1
Average of ratings: -
In reply to W Page

Re: What's Up with WebDav --- > DMS??

by Kingsley Kerce -
Hi WP -- I don't know enough about Flash development to answer, but a cursory Googling revealed no Flash-based WebDAV software. Any programming language or software platform which supports TCP/IP can implement a WebDAV client or server; the real question is which language/platform is ubiquitous enough to serve as a GUI for the WebDAV functionality of Moodle? This is the age old question for web developers. Do we go with a lowest common denominator GUI (a web browser and forms), or use something more fancy like Flash or Java, but which requires users to install more software beyond a browser? (A separate but similarly flavored question is: Must we use the same language/platform, i.e., PHP, for both Moodle and WebDAV servers?)

It sure would be nice to see an existing GUI for configuring WebDAV access control, versioning, etc. I'm currently evaluating Jakarta Slide in this regard. I don't have access to commercial products such as Xythos WFS, which very well may have a nice implementation of such a GUI. Anyone seen an implementation yet?

Addendum: Google for Xythos WFS and read the hits within the top ten entitled "Xythos WFS", which correspond to instructions for various universities' installations of Xythos.

Kings

Average of ratings: -