For schools and businesses that have thought about adding a live meeting component to their Moodle courses, but have been put off by the cost of commercial options, Elluminate announced today a totally free 3 seat version of their software. This is not a watered down version of Elluminate, it is the whole enchalada with the only missing feature being that you can't make recordings. Best of all Elluminate is hosting this so all you have to do is go to http://www.elluminate.com/vroom/ and sign up for your free version. Elluminate has been integrated with Moodle as earlier reported, making this a good solution for small meetings or one-to-one tutoring.
Well, I saw it on 15th (US time) in their site and got my account 2 days ago.
I believe vRoom cannot be integrated with Moodle.
I tried the workaround for recording using camstudio. The audio does not record as elluminate occupies mic. Othewise, I have been inerested in $50 for 10 users edition for long.
A clarification: The point mentioned above about audio recording in camstudio is applicable for windows '98. Audio recording works in XP with elluminate.
3 Users: 0$
5 Users: 180$
Cost per user for the first 3 users = 0$
Cost per user for the next 2 users = 90$
I fail to understand this binary pricing strategy. Pricing strategy should be analogue not digital if one is looking for volume.
50$ for 10 user lite edition is scrapped (just when I had resolved recording issue and was considering it seriously). Lite edition is now available for thousand of dollars for large scale deployment.
3 user edition is almost useless for me but since it is free I must thank Elluminate for it. I believe Marratech is also offering something in these lines and so is livehuddle.
PS: Prices are monthly.
5 Users: 180$
Cost per user for the first 3 users = 0$
Cost per user for the next 2 users = 90$
I fail to understand this binary pricing strategy. Pricing strategy should be analogue not digital if one is looking for volume.
50$ for 10 user lite edition is scrapped (just when I had resolved recording issue and was considering it seriously). Lite edition is now available for thousand of dollars for large scale deployment.
3 user edition is almost useless for me but since it is free I must thank Elluminate for it. I believe Marratech is also offering something in these lines and so is livehuddle.
PS: Prices are monthly.
Whoa, nelly!
Not sure of what the implications of this are, but I suspect that it will follow the same model as other downloadable apps from Google (e.g., Google Earth, Toolbar):
- base functionality will be free
- advanced functionality will require a subscription
Google will likely act as the host for this service, so that means no need to run your own server, etc. If there is a subscription model and the pricing is right, this might be THE killer app in Google's arsenal. I supppose it could also be ad-based, e.g., like gMail.
Thoughts?
Not sure of what the implications of this are, but I suspect that it will follow the same model as other downloadable apps from Google (e.g., Google Earth, Toolbar):
- base functionality will be free
- advanced functionality will require a subscription
Google will likely act as the host for this service, so that means no need to run your own server, etc. If there is a subscription model and the pricing is right, this might be THE killer app in Google's arsenal. I supppose it could also be ad-based, e.g., like gMail.
Thoughts?
It may be interesting to see in that blog post the mention of the word software (in fact a line has been added in the blog post later to clear some confusion).
What makes it really interesting is that the second paragraph of the post says that the engineers will be based at Sweden. Well, if it is just the Marratech software that Google is deploying for Googlers (Google employees) then why would they talk about the engineers of Marratech? By acquiring software, it appears to mean that the software with the whole development team.
If Google makes Marratech available to users (besides Googlers) then web conferencing should move towards becoming a commodity. With bandwidth becoming cheaper plus the backing of advertising, the basic version can be kept free and the advanced version can be subscription based.
What makes it really interesting is that the second paragraph of the post says that the engineers will be based at Sweden. Well, if it is just the Marratech software that Google is deploying for Googlers (Google employees) then why would they talk about the engineers of Marratech? By acquiring software, it appears to mean that the software with the whole development team.
If Google makes Marratech available to users (besides Googlers) then web conferencing should move towards becoming a commodity. With bandwidth becoming cheaper plus the backing of advertising, the basic version can be kept free and the advanced version can be subscription based.
Very interesting development.
At the April Moodle Developer Conference yesterday we talked a little about the current beta version of DimDim (open source audio/video conferencing system) and its Moodle integration. I've been trying it out and it's all looking very promising.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/dimdim/
However, if we can do the same kind of thing via Google then that would probably blow everything else (even DimDim) out of the water (assuming Google's eventual solution can support rooms with 30 people or more).
At the April Moodle Developer Conference yesterday we talked a little about the current beta version of DimDim (open source audio/video conferencing system) and its Moodle integration. I've been trying it out and it's all looking very promising.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/dimdim/
However, if we can do the same kind of thing via Google then that would probably blow everything else (even DimDim) out of the water (assuming Google's eventual solution can support rooms with 30 people or more).
I've used Marratech fairly extensively. It's a good product. As for supporting rooms with 30 people or more, it's difficult for me to grasp the technical implications of this on the scale of Google. I'm assuming that Google would host the Marratech connections on their servers. Video and audio and application sharing together are UNBELIEVEABLY bandwidth intensive. Will Google have the server farms to do this?
Having used Google for mail more extensively lately, and with some clients using Writely, etc. for group collaboration--I always have to remind myself and my clients that this is an advertising company, not a software company.
Don't expect help with bugs, expect that these tools will always be in beta, expect there will be tons of cool that mostly almost works perfectly--this is exactly the kind of environment a very smart advertising team would want to create to attract the 'techie' personality type to, so you can target high end gadget adds to them.
On the other hand I wouldn't want t explain to a teacher and students who had a scheduled video conference that Google's tools are not working right now, and there is nothing we can do about it but wait until they get around to fixing it (or click on the adds for nano-wearable-touchscreen interfaced super computers). They may also 'upgrade' at any time, have maintenance windows at their convenience, etc.
So cool tools yes, but not things that I would recommend relying on grades or such or building up training programs based on--you are still buying a service from a vendor, in this case you are paying with your eyeballs and personal data rather than with your $, but you are still in the position where the vendor could change their price/services/model at any time--and in the case of a 'free' service you probably don't have much of a Service Level Agreement you can enforce against Google if they decide to drop or change the service.
Don't expect help with bugs, expect that these tools will always be in beta, expect there will be tons of cool that mostly almost works perfectly--this is exactly the kind of environment a very smart advertising team would want to create to attract the 'techie' personality type to, so you can target high end gadget adds to them.
On the other hand I wouldn't want t explain to a teacher and students who had a scheduled video conference that Google's tools are not working right now, and there is nothing we can do about it but wait until they get around to fixing it (or click on the adds for nano-wearable-touchscreen interfaced super computers). They may also 'upgrade' at any time, have maintenance windows at their convenience, etc.
So cool tools yes, but not things that I would recommend relying on grades or such or building up training programs based on--you are still buying a service from a vendor, in this case you are paying with your eyeballs and personal data rather than with your $, but you are still in the position where the vendor could change their price/services/model at any time--and in the case of a 'free' service you probably don't have much of a Service Level Agreement you can enforce against Google if they decide to drop or change the service.
In reply to Michael Penney
Privacy Questions for Users of Google Tools and Services
by Ralf Hilgenstock -
Hi Michael and other users of Google Tools and Services
I hope you can give me some additional informations about privacy and Google tools and applications.
As far as I saw the licences of Google, the google privacy rules and different additional texts that are linked from this documents are a problem in my opinion and the german point of view. I'm not very familiar with american legal documents and american law.
I had the impact that Google can use the stored informations from the services and analyze them. Some quotes from Google:
"In some cases, we may process personal information on behalf of and according to the instructions of a third party, such as our advertising partners. ...
When you sign up for a particular service that requires registration, we ask you to provide personal information. If we use this information in a manner different than the purpose for which it was collected, then we will ask for your consent prior to such use.
If we propose to use personal information for any purposes other than those described in this Policy and/or in the specific service notices, we will offer you an effective way to opt out of the use of personal information for those other purposes. We will not collect or use sensitive information for purposes other than those described in this Policy and/or in the specific service notices, unless we have obtained your prior consent.
You can decline to submit personal information to any of our services, in which case Google may not be able to provide those services to you.
Google shares personal information with other companies or individuals outside of Google in the following limited circumstances:
- We have your consent. We require opt-in consent for the sharing of any sensitive personal information.
- We provide such information to our subsidiaries, affiliated companies or other trusted businesses or persons for the purpose of processing personal information on our behalf. We require that these parties agree to process such information based on our instructions and in compliance with this Policy and any other appropriate confidentiality and security measures. ..."
"6. What is sensitive information?
"Sensitive personal information" includes information we know to be related to confidential medical information, racial or ethnic origins, political or religious beliefs or sexuality and tied to personal information.
7. What is aggregated non-personal information?
"Aggregate non-personal information" is information that is recorded about users and collected into groups so that it no longer reflects or references an individually identifiable user.
8. URLs and embedded information
Some of our services, including Google Toolbar and Google Web Accelerator, send the uniform resource locators ("URLs") of web pages that you request to Google. When you use these services, Google will receive and store the URL sent by the web sites you visit, including any personal information inserted into those URLs by the web site operator. Some Google services (such as Google Toolbar) enable you to opt-in or opt-out of sending URLs to Google, while for others (such as Google Web Accelerator) the sending of URLs to Google is intrinsic to the service. When you sign up for any such service, you will be informed clearly that the service sends URLs to Google, and whether and how you can opt-in or opt-out. " http://www.google.com/intl/en/privacy_faq.html#aggregatedinfo
If we are working with Moodle we know exactly what happens with the data. If we are using with additional Google Tools we don't know exactly who gets informations about this in the future.
Did the students really know whats the content of this licence papers. We had some discussions about such topics in Germany:
- Shall the principal of a school know about the time his teacher are working online? If we are using google tools, not the principal, but Google knows it.
- The german minister of interior published just plans to spy with virus the computers of suspects. Its a strong discussion about this idea. Google knows what we are doing using google services. Google knows the content of our documents, our dates in google calendar, the mail content via googlemail.
- Some data security engineers in germany say, moodle collects to much data and don't complies the german legal rules about privacy.
And Google says "we provide such information to our ... affiliated companies or other trusted businesses".
We have a german word "informationelle Selbstbestimmung" (selfdetermination about the information other store about me or use). More than ten years ago the German Constitutional Court judged about a planned census and defined the selfedtermination rights.
I see a problem that knowbody knows what information are stored about us at Google and Google can combine several information about us and provide this results to other companies or governmental organizations.
In education at schools, highschools and universities we have a special liability to inform about such things and to be carefull in using such tools. If use uncritaclly use Google tools and services we say to the students you can trust us and you do all in Google and that will not be a problem. I think it can be really a problem.
Some german employers made a search via google about the candidates for a job and found interesting informations about their discussions and postings in online forums. What if they ask Google to evaluate in future all the Google data about candidates?
I'm really worried about the data collections via Google tools and services. Personally I don't use online services of Google likecalendar, googlemail, googletalk,...
and I'm would like to hear how you are thinking about this.
Ralf
In reply to Ralf Hilgenstock
Re: Privacy Questions for Users of Google Tools and Services
by Michael Penney -
Well, I am not a lawyer, but I think your main point is exactly correct:
I hope you can give me some additional informations about privacy
The aim of an advertising company that offers 'free' services is probable to gather information and resell it. Even if they give you a SLA that legally limits their use of your information, it probably is subject to change by the advertising company.
Ultimately, if you are going to rely on free services, you need the provider of those services to have some way to generate a return on their investment on those services--if they don't at some point they will run out of money and have to cancel those services and then you'll have to bear the cost of finding new services, retraining your users, etc.
So far, user have generally considered their information 'free' and so haven't figured in the cost of providing it to companies like Google, MySpace, Facebook, etc. that offer then "free" services in return for our data. In reality, this is an exchange, and obviously the data users provide to Google is currently valued at 10s of Billions of $, by Google's investors if not by the users who have contributed to Google's data mine (The data mine-the only kind of mine where the resource constantly increases).
It may indeed be best in the long run for educational institutions to figure out how to pay directly for the services they need for their own business-education, than to try and use 'free' services to save money.
I think it does get more problematic when Schools start using these 'free' tools in their courses, if students are required to use MySpace for a course, for instance, then they have been required by their school to give away some of their information to MySpace for 'free' to a company that the school does not have any formal, contractual relationship with (in said contract the limits of what the contracted company might do with the information it gathers can be defined). As you point out, this may also be illegal under the laws of some nations (in the US it would likely be FERPA, though again IANAL).
IOW, TANSTAAFL and "Follow the money" apply even to Google
.
By the way, this is one of the points I raise (or at least think of) when I hear folks expound on how open mashups of free services are going to replace the siloed LMS.
I hope you can give me some additional informations about privacy
The aim of an advertising company that offers 'free' services is probable to gather information and resell it. Even if they give you a SLA that legally limits their use of your information, it probably is subject to change by the advertising company.
Ultimately, if you are going to rely on free services, you need the provider of those services to have some way to generate a return on their investment on those services--if they don't at some point they will run out of money and have to cancel those services and then you'll have to bear the cost of finding new services, retraining your users, etc.
So far, user have generally considered their information 'free' and so haven't figured in the cost of providing it to companies like Google, MySpace, Facebook, etc. that offer then "free" services in return for our data. In reality, this is an exchange, and obviously the data users provide to Google is currently valued at 10s of Billions of $, by Google's investors if not by the users who have contributed to Google's data mine (The data mine-the only kind of mine where the resource constantly increases).
It may indeed be best in the long run for educational institutions to figure out how to pay directly for the services they need for their own business-education, than to try and use 'free' services to save money.
I think it does get more problematic when Schools start using these 'free' tools in their courses, if students are required to use MySpace for a course, for instance, then they have been required by their school to give away some of their information to MySpace for 'free' to a company that the school does not have any formal, contractual relationship with (in said contract the limits of what the contracted company might do with the information it gathers can be defined). As you point out, this may also be illegal under the laws of some nations (in the US it would likely be FERPA, though again IANAL).
IOW, TANSTAAFL and "Follow the money" apply even to Google
By the way, this is one of the points I raise (or at least think of) when I hear folks expound on how open mashups of free services are going to replace the siloed LMS
I'm pleased to see Martin and the developers have had a play with DimDim and also notice that it's been added to the 1.9 release roadmap.
Whilst the beta does have a few important features missing (like the whiteboard and the ability to annotate) it is opensource and so far looks like a great product.
I can't wait to start using both Moodle and DimDim
Whilst the beta does have a few important features missing (like the whiteboard and the ability to annotate) it is opensource and so far looks like a great product.
I can't wait to start using both Moodle and DimDim
Dokeos (www.dokeos.com) has an open source video conferencing and whiteboard that works fine. It uses openlazzo and openoffice server, with Red5 open flash server. You can use audio, video, whiteboard and presentation sharing with this solution.
Since it is open source, we tried extracting it from Dokeos and integration with moodle. While it is possible to do so, it requires a lot of configuration and coding. If someone really works on it, it could be a great solution, and we wont be dependent on any Google solution.
Since it is open source, we tried extracting it from Dokeos and integration with moodle. While it is possible to do so, it requires a lot of configuration and coding. If someone really works on it, it could be a great solution, and we wont be dependent on any Google solution.
If the idea is to make synchronous learning a component of moodle, then NEW I think is a very serious candidate for consideration.
Sounds like an interesting project. Have you used this environment?
I have used it for testing purpose only and out of all open source options available at the moment in my knowledge namely, (a) NEW (b) Dokeos add-on (c) Webhuddle (d) DimDim, NEW is most feature rich I think.
I had a look at NEW some time ago. One problem was that there wasn't any development over a long term. They have now updated thesystem. But there is no continuous work. An other problem is the licence. Its only free for academic purposes and there is no licence for other use.
Dokeos (www.dokeos.com) has an open source video conferencing and whiteboard that works fine. It uses openlazzo and openoffice server, with Red5 open flash server. You can use audio, video, whiteboard and presentation sharing with this solution.
Since it is open source, we tried extracting it from Dokeos and integration with moodle. While it is possible to do so, it requires a lot of configuration and coding. If someone really works on it, it could be a great solution, and we wont be dependent on any Google solution.
Since it is open source, we tried extracting it from Dokeos and integration with moodle. While it is possible to do so, it requires a lot of configuration and coding. If someone really works on it, it could be a great solution, and we wont be dependent on any Google solution.
Hi,
Dimdim Moodle Integration pack is available at http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=176809&package_id=228683&release_id=501528
Dimdim is added as an activity within moodle and Dimdim Web meeting can directly be invoked from the Moodle itself. Please tell me if you face any problems/issues.
Thanks and Regards,
-Rajesh
rajesh(@)dimdim.com
Dimdim Moodle Integration pack is available at http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=176809&package_id=228683&release_id=501528
Dimdim is added as an activity within moodle and Dimdim Web meeting can directly be invoked from the Moodle itself. Please tell me if you face any problems/issues.
Thanks and Regards,
-Rajesh
rajesh(@)dimdim.com
Very interesting idea. Is it in your roadmap to get it working in Moodle 1.8? Also we are running on a 64 bit processor and your code appears to be 32 bit.
Regards
David Berry
Regards
David Berry
yes the current release works with Moodle 1.8. The download location is http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=176809&package_id=228683
Regards,
Rajesh
rajesh(@)dimdim.com
Location of Dimdim-Moodle integration pack: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=176809&package_id=228683
Regards,
Rajesh
rajesh(@)dimdim.com
Location of Dimdim-Moodle integration pack: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=176809&package_id=228683
Hi Bryan,
Hope you're keeping as busy as always.
Is this open to Universities?
Rich
Hope you're keeping as busy as always.
Is this open to Universities?
Rich
Hi Richard,
Yes, this offer is open to all takers! I talked with Rajeev at Elluminate the day the announcement was made and he mentioned that in the first 2 hours they had set up over 150 new accounts, many in the academic setting.
Bryan
Hmmm... I filled out the form, but I never did get the confirmation email. It was probably blocked. I will try again.
-- Art
-- Art
We used the $50, 10-seater Lite Office in conjunction with our Moodle site for our free (voluntary donation-based) homeschool co-op last spring that I taught. Voluntary donation meant that typically I taught and paid the bill as well. LOL. But I loved it and my own son got to enjoy having his homeschool classes with friends.
We didn't need but 4 seats at any one time as our classes were 4 to 7 year olds giving it a more turoring-oriented approach than a typical larger online class. We didn't need a big enrollment to cover a payroll since I donated my time free, Moodle was free, the Moodle site was paid for by another homeschooling mom who set it up as a ministry to all homeschoolers - she didn't even put ads on it.
The three seater version with all the tools and being free is a Godsend, even if we have to trim out one seat in a class. We have put every tool in the vRoom to good use. Just today the kids played their first Flash math game inside the vRoom.
I would like to see an easy way to see immediately how much it would cost and to quickly order extra seats to our vRoom should we need them. hint, hint. I would hate to lose all the cool tools to bump up to the Lite Office version again just to get that 4th seat and 6 seats go empty.
We have always just posted a link at our Moodle course site for the students to access our Elluminate classroom. The kids figured it out just fine. I asked our site owner to go ahead and add the Elluminate block though. Hey, I can dream big that someday we might have more than just me teaching and have need of and be able to afford the mondo seat capacity Academic version.
Thanks Elluminate.
Yep,
I jumped right on that! It's a great thing, particularly for office hours and interviews.
I also added it into Moodle by using <iframe> in an added Web page with HTML:
<iframe width="800" height="800" src="[replace with link to your vroom]"></iframe></p>
You can have the link go to the elluminate start page for your vroom or you can even grab the link that automatically downloads the JNLP file to your computer to start the vroom.
I wonder, does anyone know if you can embed a JNLP file into a web page? Perhaps that way you could even upload the jnlp file to Moodle, iFrame it right into Moodle? Well, I tried this and it doesn't work, because inevitably the JNLP file wants to download instead of displaying in the page...
vRoom/Elluminate Block, anyone?
best,
clark
I jumped right on that! It's a great thing, particularly for office hours and interviews.
I also added it into Moodle by using <iframe> in an added Web page with HTML:
<iframe width="800" height="800" src="[replace with link to your vroom]"></iframe></p>
You can have the link go to the elluminate start page for your vroom or you can even grab the link that automatically downloads the JNLP file to your computer to start the vroom.
I wonder, does anyone know if you can embed a JNLP file into a web page? Perhaps that way you could even upload the jnlp file to Moodle, iFrame it right into Moodle? Well, I tried this and it doesn't work, because inevitably the JNLP file wants to download instead of displaying in the page...
vRoom/Elluminate Block, anyone?
best,
clark
vRoom/Elluminate Block, anyone?
Yes, I just installed the block and the module. The install went smoothly, but I have some questions about configuring the module which I posted to the Activity Modules forum.
Yes, I just installed the block and the module. The install went smoothly, but I have some questions about configuring the module which I posted to the Activity Modules forum.
Hi,
Dimdim Integration with Moodle is ready and the Dimdim Moodle Integration pack is available at http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=176809&package_id=228683&release_id=501528
Dimdim is added as an activity within moodle and Dimdim Web meeting can directly be invoked from the Moodle itself. Please tell me if you face any problems/issues.
Thanks and Regards,
-Rajesh
Dimdim Integration with Moodle is ready and the Dimdim Moodle Integration pack is available at http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=176809&package_id=228683&release_id=501528
Dimdim is added as an activity within moodle and Dimdim Web meeting can directly be invoked from the Moodle itself. Please tell me if you face any problems/issues.
Thanks and Regards,
-Rajesh