Forum content control

Forum content control

by Pete Misner -
Number of replies: 30

I am wondering if there is a way in the current version or if there could be a way in future versions to give teachers/facilitators the ability to review forum submissions before they become posted "live". 

I work in a K-12 environment and lapses in judgement are bound to happen and such control would ease the minds of many teachers and vice-principals smile

Thanks,
Pete

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Pete Misner

Re: Forum content control

by Martin Dougiamas -
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Frankly it sounds like a massive headache to me. Quite apart from the load this places on teachers, have these principals heard about teaching kids responsibility?

Embarrassment and exclusion are two good tools in the teacher's arsenal. The teacher can also delete any post if it's really a problem.

The new version 1.2 in development now has text filters, and you can put in a censorship filter if you want to try and prevent kids from using naughty words.
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Forum content control

by Lev Abramov -

Hey, I like your way of embedding in bold smile

And I agree that AUP (acceptable use policy) developed by a school and signed by a pupila and a parent works better than manual filtering (which may be needed to apply once in a while, of course...)

L

In reply to Lev Abramov

Re: Forum content control

by Martin Dougiamas -
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Yes, an AUP is a good idea if abuse is a big problem. With perhaps a clause that says "each time you breach this policy your final grade will be reduced by 30%". wink

As for the embedding, well, I was always a student who wanted to see how much I could get away with (without affecting my grades). tongueout evil
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Forum content control

by Rob Hillis -
Something tells me that you might have left out something from this fine response
In reply to Rob Hillis

Re: Forum content control

by Pete Misner -
thanks for proving my point.
In reply to Pete Misner

Re: Forum content control

by Martin Dougiamas -
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Pete, I hope you didn't think I meant anything disrespectful to you personally in my posts here ... was not intended that way at all. My point was just about slipping things through censors.
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Forum content control

by Ger Tielemans -
Martin, this is a killing example for all the censor-wishes, fantastic! Yes we live in an open society, teach children how to cherish that and how to cope with utterances of people who cannot carry the wealth of that freedom wideeyes.gif. One step outside the school is the jungle, also called real life.
In reply to Pete Misner

Re: Forum content control

by Timothy Takemoto -
I don't know how good you are a php but the glossary module contains a new "waiting approval" feature that does just what you wish. It is really neat.
In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Forum content control

by Pete Misner -
Thanks for the glossary module idea. I will check it out.

Right now, I think we simply have a few students testing the waters with this new on-line environment and it is being dealt with. Keep in mind that public institutions such as schools are regularly in the court system being held accountable for the content that is posted on their network...web and email.

Another application I was looking for that this feature could be used is when Forums are used as a portfolio system. General practice for on-line portfolios is that the artifacts and reflections are only posted when they have met the expectations of the teacher. This approval option would be great there too.
In reply to Pete Misner

Re: Forum content control

by Lev Abramov -

Peter, hi

showcasing essays that meet the requirements is a good way of setting a benchmark - but posting them before they are fully ripe enables the learners to see not only the results, but the process as well. After commenting on a draft-level paper, you can accept the next draft and either replace the previous one - or even post both of them side by side, to make comparison easier. For a conscientious learner (and there is/are one or two in every group), this approach can be more beneficial (at the expense of gloss).

Just my $.02

Lev

 

In reply to Lev Abramov

Re: Forum content control

by Pete Misner -
Lev,
Excellent point. I agree. Perhaps there could be a process portfolio that demonstrated the development and progress of the learner and a separate cumilitave showcase portfolio of final pieces.

Love the idea.
Thanks
In reply to Lev Abramov

Re: Forum content control

by Ger Tielemans -

Free and open source:

http://d3e.sourceforge.net/

easier to setup: http://d3e.sourceforge.net/ubiquitous-d3e.html

missing:

  • possibilty to clean the discussion area (after  processing the comments from the right)
  • no portfolio storage to look back on the development form draft to final (when you change the version of the doc in the left window)
  • not integrated in Moodle admin
In reply to Pete Misner

Re: Forum content control

by Art Lader -
Keep in mind that public institutions such as schools are regularly in the court system being held accountable for the content that is posted on their network...web and email.

Absolutely true. I can easily imagine a principal in my school district banning Moodle because teachers cannot moderate posts to the forums. And I do not fault the principals. All it takes is one complaint and you're in court and your life becomes very, very upleasant. At least where I live.

(Glad it has not happened yet, because next semester I will teach a 15 week staff development course on using Moodle to a dozen teachers from various schools in our district.)
In reply to Art Lader

Re: Forum content control

by Martin Dougiamas -
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I understand the US is a highly litigious country - so what happens if some kid uses bad language in a playground, or brings in a porn mag and shows it around? Do parents of other kids sue the school?

How can a school be responsible for everything every student does? Surely the notion of personal responsibility hasn't totally disappeared there, has it?

Perhaps there just needs to be an agreement form that must be signed by students/parents that


- explains the school's policy against certain content
- explains the stiff penalties for breaking the rules
- explains that bad content will be dealt with when reported or found
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Forum content control

by Floyd Collins -

Yes this is just what happens in the US there is a sue happy spirit it seems. Yet I have not heard of one case where the school was held for a student doing a bad deed. There is a prudence on the students part. We do however have such a contract and each student and parent must sign before Internet usage is allowed for that student.

 

In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Forum content control

by Martin Dougiamas -
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Thought a bit more about this and put my finger on exactly what troubles me: once you start screening all posts you are TAKING ON full responsibility for their contents and giving students absolutely no responsibility - this would seem to make you more liable for the contents, not less.
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Forum content control

by Sean Keogh -
I don't know about the US, but every time I read the newspaper here I get depressed.

It seems that many people are leaving the teaching profession in Britain because the ruiles now are so crazy that a teacher can even be sued for "giving a pupil a funny look"....and a lot of parents these days seem to think that once their children start school they no longer have a parental responsibility to ensure that their children behave in an acceptable way. This results in major disruption in classes and teachers that are unable to control their students for fear of being sued for assault, even if all they do is raise their voice in class.

Sorry, I know this has no place in a moodle technical forum....it just gets to me sometimes...I wonder if this is the same planet I grew up on.
In reply to Sean Keogh

Re: Forum content control

by John Gone -
Odd turn of events, really. We expose our young to all and any sorts of behavior and then act alarmed when they exhibit same. It must be difficult for a kid to navigate through the mixed messages. Seems nobody wants to accept responsibilty for their own behavior, and no longer has to.
In reply to Sean Keogh

Re: Forum content control

by Art Lader -
...a lot of parents these days seem to think that once their children start school they no longer have a parental responsibility to ensure that their children behave in an acceptable way.

True. And the odd consequence of this for my family is that my wife and I, both dedicated teachers at a pretty good public high school, pay quite a bit of money to send our daughter to a private, parochial school where this is not the case. The parents are generally reasonable and the students are generally quite well behaved.

I know a lot of excellent, hard-working teachers, true professionals who take the job very seriously, and most of them are quite frustrated and at least a little discouraged.

But I also know many parents who feel that they are fighting a losing battle. They have not abandoned their responsibilities, they simply cannot overcome the influence of the popular culture that these kids are growing up in.

Sigh... Maybe it's just my age. I am probably a cranky old man at 47.

I'll just try to do a good job each day and hope for the best.
In reply to Art Lader

Re: Forum content control

by John Gone -
Hi Art,
"But I also know many parents who feel that they are fighting a losing battle. They have not abandoned their responsibilities, they simply cannot overcome the influence of the popular culture that these kids are growing up in."

I dunno about this one? I think those parents, I include my wife and I in this group, need to continue to accept responsibility for their children and remember to remove some of this external pressure on their kids by establishing clear guidelines. In our experience kids will fall back on this parental pressure to behave by choosing to conform to parents wishes rather than the external influence. This tends to remove the pressure from the kids shoulders and places it squarely on ours. Our job is to ensure that they have an alternative source of influence. The pressure exerted by us is formidable and relentless. This is preferrable to peer pressure, in some cases. Peer pressure is not always negative. We just want our kids to be able to say to the world "I'd like to do this or that but my parents will be something less than happy with me if I do. If you knew my parents you wouldn't either so I'm not going to."

This method requires diligence and the refusal, on our part, to allow ambiguity to creep in to this very important area of our kid's lives. We've seen this work on many occasions to our kid's benefits. They tell their friends or acquaintances that the price would be too high. Our pressure exceeds that of their peers. They'll still make the decision but we like to think that we've influenced it somehow. They seem to be doing ok. And yes, they do test us to see if we're still in the game. They do their job and we do ours. When they're in school the teacher's allowed to do theirs, which is teaching our kids, not raising our kids. We don't believe for a minute that it's futile to try to create a balance between popular culture, and all it has to offer, and protecting them from some of what is has to offer. The world still has far more positive attributes than negative ones. It just seems, sometimes, as though the bad side's winning. That's just marketting, don't mistake it for reality, although it's easy to do just that.

Part of the problem, I think, is this. The huge majority of people are caring, law abiding good people. We've been shouted down by the few who aren't. Historically identical ratio of good to bad. The good have just dropped the ball in the marketting department that's all. Good people have to quit being embarrassed by their goodness and set an example. Better marketting by the majority is what's required. And a little less ambiguity too.

Incidentally Art, I like the clarity that comes with age, for some people, at least. Some things are really what they appear to be and age seems to make it easier to see this.

John (possibly getting a bit cranky at 41)
In reply to John Gone

Re: Forum content control

by John Gone -
I was just thinking about the age thing and clarity and wondering "Is that consructivism?" or is that too simplified.

Martin, I'd like to appologize here for turning several of these areas into philosophical soap-boxes. I'm a loud-mouth in person, too. And yes, my discussions contain run-on sentences just like my posts.
In reply to John Gone

Re: Forum content control

by Art Lader -
I agree with everything that you posted aboiut accepting responsibility for the rearing of one's children and not giving in. (That may be bad news for you; I'm not all that bright.) I really do think, though, that many parents are simply overwhelmed.

As far as the soapbox thing goes, perhaps this is a demonstration of some sort of connected knowing...

In reply to Art Lader

Re: Forum content control

by John Gone -
You're right, of course, about many parents feeling overwhelmed. Unfortunately they can't, in my opinion, afford this luxury anymore. And I really do think it's a luxury item. This is a discretionary emotional response to a set of circumstances that are NOT beyond their control. Simply shutting the TV off and talking to your kid whether they want to or not is a REAL expression of love and compassion. We've ALL engineered so many ways to fail, if we choose, at this most critcal of missions that we really don' t even have to try and make an effort if we don't want.
"I would've helped him/her if I'd only known..."
"I would've listened better if I hadn't been too busy doing _______ which really seemed quite important at the time"
"I didn't see it coming because it's the start of the new TV season and I didn't want to miss the important bits..."
and on, and on, and on...

Our kids are totally aware of what our real priorities are. I think many of the problems we're seeing are due to this fact.

This won't sound very nice but...

If we gave our kids as much time and attention as our house plants perhaps they'd be as healthy. Or, think of your kid as a plant and learn to recognize the vibrant healthy shine and luxurious growth that comes from patient attention and feeding, or, conversely, the way they look when they're being neglected. The result of neglect is the same in both cases. The indicators are there, always, but ignored frequently.

All of this stuff is why I'm learning to apply this gift of Moodle so that people who are concerned and want to get involved pro-actively in their child's education can. So that teachers who wish to help those students who require additonal, or just different, materials can deliver this bit of extra. In the end, I guess, it's really all about trying instead of sitting back and feeling overwhelmed.

I'm expecting a reprimand this time. Sorry if I've offended anyone. I really don't mean to.

John

PS. I think you're probably pretty bright. You're using your Moodle, am I right?
In reply to John Gone

Re: Forum content control

by Floyd Collins -

John, I agree with what youre saying about fostering a kids growth. As educators we all take on the role of parent from time to time. And keeping with Moodle it is just the same. As an educator it is your responsibility to check and make sure your students are not mis using any equipment of the schools including the web site and software.

 

As a parent we guide our kids internet usage and we tell them not to go to cretin sites for there own protection. But to keep a system flexible we must make the responsibility of its content the teachers not the system administration.

 

Where we fall short is expecting the worst from our students. If you give them guide lines and rules to follow there must also be consequences. Truly the control needs to come from the classroom management not the server itself. I do think we need a better way of validating the users and maybe a way to limit access times. This will cut down on mis behavior when the student is away from the classroom and give the teacher some kind of control over time on the system. But lets not lose site that Moodle is a means of providing content not a means to provide a safety net.

 

And lets not forget there are a wide range of users for this system. From preschool to colleges so the system must be open.

In reply to John Gone

Re: Forum content control

by Steve Edwards -

We decided long ago that something had to give. Family life or the TV. The TV lost.  In retrospect it was one of the best decisions we ever made. We still watch movies (on video/DVD) and we don't mind the kids watching TV at their friends' houses. But at home our TV is not even tuned in to the local channels. The payoff has been increased interaction with the kids. We communicate, we talk a lot. The kids also read for pleasure. They read for information. They listen more. They do well at school too.

I think that one of the reasons for the disengagement of parents and children is TV. One of the overwhelming influencers in youth culture is TV. We were not prepared to 'deliver up' the minds of our children to people who had no interest (other than a financial one) in their growth and well being. TV is not the benign influence it was when I was a kid. Nowadays there is unbridled content of a kind that is inappropriate for young children and the role models that they see on TV do not come close to meeting our expectations. I believe that young children lack an affective filter and so are influenced much more by what they see on TV as they perceive it to be at least a 'version' of reality. This affects how they speak, want to dress, relate to each other and adults... everything. By cutting out TV I think we have reduced the gap between us as a family enormously.

I have several friends who have also cut out TV and have never looked back. I think we might get a TV when the kids leave the nest though. biggrin.gif

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Steve Edwards

Re: Forum content control

by John Gone -
Couldn't agree more, Steve. Funny thing is, I think most people are aware of the positive benefits of this decision but still can't bring themselves to do it...
In reply to Art Lader

Re: Forum content control

by Thomas Robb -
It would be relatively easy to implement a switch to turn the effect of cron on postings on and off. Thus, if cron for postings has been switched off by the administrator, nothing would go out until it was switched on again. The admin could thus review new postings before indirectly "approving" them either by allowing cron to operate once more or by invoking cron a single time.

In mod/forum/lib.php there is a function called "forum_cron". One could write a function which would write an empty file to a specific area, perhaps the admin file area, which could be tested for its existence. If it exists, the forum_cron function simply exits without sending any postings. Since this would only affect forum postings, all of the other regular work of cron would go on as usual.

This would sort of be a "cookie" but one that sits on the moodle server rather than in the users' computer. It could even be implemented for specific courses rather than the site as a whole.

This certainly wouldn't be as elegant as a flag on each posting which could be set to "appoved" if that particular course or forum had been marked as "approval required" but would probably be much simpler to implement.
In reply to Pete Misner

Re: Forum content control

by Steve Edwards -

It probably would be a good idea to have something like that for some situations and schools. I also work in the public school system and am currently trialing it with some Y11's. Needless to say, the very first day I had ~&*%$ expletives all over the place.

I immediately read them the riot act and essentially told them what should already have known:

1.

That access was a privilege and that I was doing something for them that I was not required to do. Something to make their lives and classes more fun, more interesting and more effective. If they could not demonstrate the required maturity I would deny them access until they could.

2.

That I could easily identify each and every individual on the system and track their access but that in any case the the amount of evidence that I required to take action would be minimal and so they had better police themselves and each other if they wanted to stay in the game. Moreover everything they did on the system was in the public domain. They should expect anything they did to be available to their mother, grandmother, the principal and anyone else they can think of.

3.

That fraud, waste and abuse were always against anyone's rules. They would be dealt with accordingly.

I have had no problems since then.

Admittedly it is still early days and but having to actively moderate would be a sort of last resort for me. We don't moderate their offline communication except in 'public', hopefully I won't have to moderate their on-line communication either.