Groups, Teachers, Students links

Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Martin Dougiamas -
Number of replies: 44
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
I really want to fix the new situation in 1.5 where we have the Groups link in the People block, and the Teachers and Students links in the Course Administration block.

All of them are for editing teachers only, and I think they should be together:
  • Teachers
  • Students
  • Groups

The question is: should the Groups link move to the course settings block, or should they all be together in the People block?

You can vote here in this choice: User editing links - which block?
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by N Hansen -
I voted for the people block, because until very recently, I had no idea there was a students link in the admin block.
In reply to N Hansen

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Darren Smith -

I always get them (people and admin) mixed up.

In fact, I have renamed the ones in our admin block to say 'enroll students' and 'enroll teachers' to avoid confusion and this seems to be helping my colleagues.

In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Paul Shew -
I think that the People block is problematic in general. Viewing all participants and editing your own profile do not necessarily go together. And, for many courses at our installation we don't want students to be able to view the participant list for privacy reasons. (For example, my large lecture style classes are too large that. We have a few courses over 300 students and one with about 750.)

It would be much more helpful for the admin menu to be organized into logical sections. We may need some discussion on how to organize and label them, but perhaps something like this.


General
[Turn editing on]
settings.gifCourse Settings...
files.gifFiles...
icon.gifHelp...
People
users.gifView participants...
users.gifEnrol teachers...
users.gifEnrol students...
users.gifGroups...
icon.gifTeacher forum
Evaluation
scales.gifScales...
grades.gifGrades...
log.gifLogs...
Backup and Restore
backup.gifBackup...
restore.gifRestore...
restore.gifImport course data

Making this made me realize how hard it it to categorize them, but at least it will give you the idea. I also think that the "turn editing on" needs to be a button, just like on the right hand side of the page for consistency.

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Paul Shew

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Darren Smith -

I like this idea a lot!

In my brain I would have logs under General and call evaluation assessment.

In reply to Paul Shew

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Tidying those up is a good idea, but

a) the participants link is not an admin function, it needs to go somewhere, and it would look quite odd in the admin block for students

b) would you just leave the edit profile link alone in its own block somewhere?
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Paul Shew -
True, the participants link is not just an admin function, but it would be handy to group it there too. Maybe we need a redesigned "Participants" block that shows a few stats like how many participants there are in the course and how many people logged in today, as well as providing the View Participants link.

Edit Profile should probably go in the student version of the admin menu. It fits right in with items like these:

report.gifActivity report
user.gifChange password
user.gifUnenrol me from Using Moodle

EDIT: Or maybe we need to rename the student admin block. How about "Student Menu" or "Participant Menu". Then the Participant link would fit too. Plus, it would be handy for teachers to be able to see that block, even if some items are only directly relevent to students. It would give teachers a better awareness of what students see when they log in, since currently the admin menu is completely different whether you're viewing it as a teacher or student.
In reply to Paul Shew

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
I remember now why the "Edit profile" link is in the People block and not in the Admin block, it was to bulk up the content in that block and make it worth the real estate. smile I agree with you that it could be moved to the Admin menu with the other editing links.

I don't agree that the link to "Participants" should also go to Admin though. To me it's fundamental for learning in Moodle that students do know who their classmates are and I think the People block up there is not only useful but allows Moodle to make a little statement about the importance of people in a course. This actually helps those who don't see it as important anyway, because they can hide it more easily. wink

Since the People block would contain only one link, it would be nice to add something else to bulk it up. I like the idea of some simple stats to help get an overview. Course numbers are good, recent users is good. Number of groups could be good. Any other ideas from anyone if we were to go this way?
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Darren Smith -

How about putting the list of online users in the people block? You could also put messaging in there (it looks a bit lonely all by itself).

Darren

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Chardelle Busch -
Picture of Core developers
I got rid of the administration block for users ages ago (only admin and teachers can see it).  I changed Edit Profile string to read My Profile and instruct users that if they want to unenroll, change password, etc., to go to My Profile.  Note that for this site there are no grades.  Why can't all the user admin stuff (including grades?) just be done from the profile page and get rid of the admin block for users altogether?  I'm all for streamlining the use of blocks whenever possible.
In reply to Chardelle Busch

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Dirk Herr-Hoyman -
Ah, thanks Chardelle. This clarifies what I was thinking when I voted
to put groups in Participants. There are actions here that really could
be outside the scope of Moodle, if it's connected to other "enterprise"
systems. Like user account maintainance and enrollment. In a larger enterprise, these would show up somewhere else entirely.
I see that you've found a way to live without these in your courses, which
aren't hooked to these systems.

While I can see an argument going either way, I'm trying to view Moodle more
as an "end point" system in a larger IT universe. Moodle is about learning
and the tools for learning.

Now we get back to groups. That's part of the learning experience. And it's a very, very important pedagogical function. That's not "administration". Participants, and it's close cousin "participation" are where this belongs, at least for the student.

No doubt more variations on the "view" of the data will emerge. I would suggest taking small steps for now. This will likely end up with something that has a lot more knobs on it (and therefore harder to understand), as the variations get woven in...
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by D.I. von Briesen -
I like to have the people/participants right up there to the left in prime real estate. I agree that it's key to the course - but never run into the super large class problem on this end.

d.i.
In reply to Paul Shew

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Bryan Williams -
Groups is an Adminstration function, so perhaps it should go there. The same is true about Teachers and Students function; these are seen as Administration features. The scheme Paul illustrates for the Administration block is interesting.

Suppose the Online Users and People block were combined. Notice that when you click your name in the Online Users block it brings up the Edit profile screen. That takes care of one function in the People block. Moving Groups to the Administration block takes care of another. If there were a property in the Online Users block that linked to the current Participants screen (could be set by teacher), that would eliminate the need for a People block. Also, can we add a link in the Participants screen to launch the new IM client in 1.5?
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Mike Churchward -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
I was going to vote for the 'People' block, but, the adminstration functions should be blocked together. That way, you only need to add one block to get all of the functions you need.

mike
In reply to Mike Churchward

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Bob Gettings -
Thinking about the educational uses of the blocks, there are really two quite different functions. Administration and participant communication/info searching.

Administration block: I would like to see the participants, groups and enroll students/teachers functions be present in the Administration block and and evolve in a more complex class management direction.
Being able to call up and search for views of particpants listed by alphabetical order of name, student number, group, e-mail address, asignment completed, grade, location, last access, etc. would be great! The current participants listing by name, city, country, and last access only is frustrating for me because I have five hundred users with the same city and country! If only I could search by other categories like student number, group or e-mail and have the results all on one page my life would become much eaiser big grin

I'd also love to see this kind of participants search and view functionality be combined with communications functions like those available with instant messaging or quickmail. A checkbox next to each participants photo and an area for the teacher to send a message would make life so easy that I'd probably be able to take weekends off! surprise

Participants block: I'd love to see this block become customizable at a site or course level. The teacher/administrator could use this block to facilitate communication among participants in the course in ways closely related to the makeup of the class. Maybe the present "name, city, country, and last access" would be kept for courses whose participants came from around the world. I love this function in the moodle.org site. But the teacher may only want to list names and groups, or names and icq contact info, depending on the info that members of the group need to communicate most effectively. Having the option to link this to IM or quickmail (for example - can mail to whole class, can mail to group only, etc.) might also be a plus.

Dreams!! We are working on a customization of the ordinary moodle mail and quickmail functions but mostly to allow mailing Japanese students whose main email connection is from a cell phone.

I wonder if the same thing is happening in other countries but here younger people here are beginning to use cell phone email as a first preference in communication over distance. It is even replacing voice phone calls. The messages Moodle sends cell phones now are often unreadable because of encoding problems or very lengthy standard moodle strings. Has anyone counted the number of dashes "-" in Moodle's mail? surprise

Any improvement in the ability to combine a search for course participants by different criteria, be able to select the method of messaging (IM, Moodle mail, quickmail) and also select the encoding of the message would be desperately appreciated cool
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Bob Gettings

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by N Hansen -
I'd like to be able to search (or view) students by their username. This would help me to troubleshoot failed logins, which often involve correct usernames but incorrect passwords, or failure to have yet confirmed an an account. If I had a way of determining who was having trouble logging in, I might actually be able to contact them to help them.
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Bob Gettings

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by thiruvarangaselvi vardharajan -

i got some messages thank u.

if u know reply to:

i also know about this detail.we are creating moodle using courses through online.but i don't know about cellphone through email wise education.japanese using tool on mobile but we don't know that tool option if anybody know this funtion send me reply

 

mail id:thiruvarangaselviv@yahoo.co.in

In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Michael Penney -
I vote put them all in a control panelsmile.


Attachment users.gif
In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Karrie V -
Love this idea but does it exist?
In reply to Karrie V

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Michael Penney -
Yep, but it isn't ready for release yet, it looks nice but the code is messy.

When it's a bit better cleaned up, I'll  put it in CVS/contrib as the CourseMenu2 package, it is a new version of the xtree menu block with the control panel built-in.
In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Mark Davies -

Curious to know if the coursemenu2 package is available yet, I really like it?

Mark

In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Enrique Castro -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
Hi,
    I agree that group and profile editing are adminsitrative functions that could be better placed in Administration block (for teachers and students).

But the People/participants block IS very important. Looking the records of my courses, the course list is probably the most visited page by my students. So teh social interaction function of this page (accesed from thsi block) is essential. I even propose to enhance it. Some others have proposed earlier in this thread.

Perhaps we could gather together in the People/Participants block what is now in this one + Online users +  Messaging block. Having a single block for all main communication-related tools (not really "activities": not teacher-tutorized nor graded). Usually People means People to communicate with.

- Enrique -
In reply to Enrique Castro

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Darren Smith -

Something like the following for people block:

Users

Course Participants
Course Groups (non edit view)
My Profile (view.php - they can edit it once they are in)

New Users

Student D
Student E

Online Users

Student A
Student B
Student C

Messages ...

And the admin menu:

Manage teachers
Enroll students
Manage groups

In reply to Darren Smith

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Paul Shew -
I think that this is evolving towards a good way to emphasize the communication and interaction tools (People), while also organizing the admin menu too.

But I would like to see a way to hide the Participants link in really large classes for privacy reasons. Communication among students is really important for most classes, and yes, I agree that it's a a big benefit of Moodle. But for huge lecture style classes, I have to hide the participant link, and I suspect I'm not alone. Can we make it so individual links within the block can be hidden? Even when the participant link is hidden, I need the students to be able to easily access their profile, grades, etc. For example, using the scheme Darren proposes above in my largest classes, I would want to hide everything under Users, New Users and Online Users, EXCEPT the My Profile link.
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Karrie V -
I really like this idea but I think we should have an eye to turn off sections you may not want your students to view - for example messages.
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by N Hansen -
I like Darren's idea for the people block a lot. It would be nice if teachers could switch to an enrolling/unenrolling view of students and groups when they reach these pages from this block.
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: Groups, Teachers, Students links

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
I don't think we should combine too many functions in one block like that. It reduces flexibility, and you can place separate blocks under each other and get much the same effect anyway. (Notice that the other respondents all want to hide parts already! smile)

Of course if someone wants to make that block as an alternative they can (this is the beauty of blocks). But by default I think it should be lean, mean and modular.

About the the non-edit view of the groups, I was thinking about this ... (note this is already gone in 1.5 because the participants page does it now). I'm 50/50 on bringing back an abbreviated page which includes just the names listed next to each group icon/description - it could provide a better overview maybe. The problem is that it duplicates the participants page (bad UI practice).
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Our control panel block

by Michael Penney -
It links all the admin functions on a unique page (well set of pages with pageingsmile), including people. The means teachers don't have to have a whole set of different admin blocks all over the course.

It also provides a nice left menu access to all sections and content, so teachers and students don't have to scroll for 9 miles to get to the bottom of a 'long' course.

Flash video of the control panel is available here.
In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Our control panel block

by Michael Mucklow -
Nice!!!
How'd you do that?!

Michael
In reply to Michael Mucklow

Re: Our control panel block

by Ger Tielemans -

Michael, the video of the control panel is very convincing: did Martin have time to look at it?

If it could become part of the core of Moodle, It would give the admin part of Moodle not only a more modern interface but also a more (teacher)logic admin panel. (of course can/must/will others still use the old set of blocks)

In reply to Michael Mucklow

Re: Our control panel block

by Michael Penney -
Well, it started with the xtree menu, which I hacked the heck out of and then added in the link to the control panel page with the various tools.

Then, Jeff fixed my messy code and added in a very nice 'noscript' behavior which falls back gracefull for scriptless browsers (an absolute need with this sort of ajaxish applicationsmile).
In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Our control panel block

by A. T. Wyatt -
I checked contrib.  I am thinking that coursemenu2 has not been committed yet.  Please let us know when it is available!  It sounds like a terrific module.  (as all of yours are!)

atw
In reply to A. T. Wyatt

Re: Our control panel block

by Michael Penney -
Hi AT, it's listed as block_course_menu in contribsmile.
In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Our control panel block

by Ger Tielemans -
On your website I see in course menu the items left aligned but on my server the items are ugly centered. Where can I solve that?
In reply to Ger Tielemans

Re: Our control panel block

by Michael Penney -
Your theme may not be allowing block styles? In which case you can enable this in theme/config.php, or copy the styles from the block (styles.php) into your layout.css for your theme.
In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Our control panel block

by Herbert Keijers -
Looks very nice ! Thanks Michael Penny
One question: Has it only inserted a new_course name in mdl_block, if I look at the table-structure of MySQL ? Or are there more items inserted in the Moodle database ?

Ger, all my items are left-aligned, so looks good. Perhaps you can take a look at  styles.php in /blocks/course_menu and play around with the css
In reply to Herbert Keijers

Re: Our control panel block

by Ger Tielemans -
thanks herbert, I think that I have now to study my theme css..
In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Our control panel block

by James Robertson -

I downloaded the Course Menu Block about a week ago -- very nice work (to engage in understatement).  I would certainly like to see it become part of standard Moodle.  Meanwhile, am I correct that it is probably sufficiently stable for use on a production site (1.5.2 v 2005060222)?

I also just looked at your introduction videos & have a few questions:

1. How do you create these and where can I find instruction?  I need to build something similar for our students & faculty.

2. You showed a Graded Event module.  Where do I download it?

3. You also showed an Import Powerpoint module.  Is that a download or a variation on a standard module?  Where do I download it?

Thanks,

Jim.

In reply to James Robertson

Re: Our control panel block

by James Robertson -
Hmm... I found a lesson_importPowerPoint in CVS -- is that what you were referring to?  Is the Graded Event an update of Zbigniew Fiedorowicz's Offline Exam/Homework?
In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Our control panel block

by Karrie V -

I Love Love Love this control panel!  I installed it and have the following error showing up only on my admin page -


Warning: file(f:\easyphp1-7\www\moodle/blocks/block_course_menu/block_block_course_menu.php): failed to open stream: No such file or directory in f:\easyphp1-7\www\moodle\lib\blocklib.php on line 21

 I dont like to have errors even if they are only on the admin page... can anyone help? 

I was also wondering if it was possible to only show grades to students? we don't want students to edit their email address, username or profile since they connect to active directory. 

In reply to Karrie V

Re: Our control panel block

by Just H -
Hi Karrie

Just installed this and got the same error as you, did you manage to fix it?

Regards
Harry
In reply to Just H

Re: Our control panel block

by Just H -
Re above post - fixed it (both the course_menu and course_program blocks) by moving the folders around. They seemed to be 1 or 2 folders too deep for some reason (acquired via CVS).