It would be very helpful..
if I could use this simple step to explain visually how Pythagoras works and from there, into basic Trig.
OKK, let's take one step back from that and ask what packages need be included as a RequirePackage or UsePackage to make geometry a part of Moodle Tex?
Or better still, is there a complete set of tutorials that explain how Tex is different in Moodle? I am using MikTex then copy and paste and some of it is not working, e.g. \begin{eqnarray*}.
My earlier foray into TeX was interesting, but was for someone else to use. Now it is for me and I am just having difficulty in the basics.
And now.. LaTex and Algebra Notation have decided they have had enough, they do not want to work any more.... Unbelievable...
My earlier foray into TeX was interesting, but was for someone else to use. Now it is for me and I am just having difficulty in the basics.
And now.. LaTex and Algebra Notation have decided they have had enough, they do not want to work any more.... Unbelievable...
Thank you Livia, that is a good start...
here is a rather simple example using ASCIIMath:
http://edtech.alaskapolicy.net/index.php?title=Distance_Formula
there are quite a few java apps that offer greater options such as: Descartes, geonext (for which hopefully we will have tinyMCE plugin courtesy of Mauno), geogebra, CaR, etc
http://edtech.alaskapolicy.net/index.php?title=Distance_Formula
there are quite a few java apps that offer greater options such as: Descartes, geonext (for which hopefully we will have tinyMCE plugin courtesy of Mauno), geogebra, CaR, etc
Well, I did install AsciiMath and then changed theme, now it all works.. Unbelievable! 
I also included the psTricks module in Latex, but that may be more problematic than anything else... we shall see.
I also included the psTricks module in Latex, but that may be more problematic than anything else... we shall see.
And here is an example of using jsxgraph with mathjax ( both of which can be invoked in moodle, though you need to tweak ASCIIMath ) :
http://www.onemathematicalcat.org/algebra_book/online_problems/Pythagorean_Theorem.htm
you can have all these tools and moodle Tex filter working side by side if you limit tokens, but that might be overkill
http://www.onemathematicalcat.org/algebra_book/online_problems/Pythagorean_Theorem.htm
you can have all these tools and moodle Tex filter working side by side if you limit tokens, but that might be overkill
Well, I can tell you I had enough problem getting a good enough grip on TeX to be able to get as far as I have so taking too many things on now is just not going to happen, I can tell you...
I went and looked at the Geogebra site and wow.. do I know what I am doing there? Not a chance... but if I do not dive in, I do not think I am going to learn too much.... As long as I can retain my sanity that will be good. Same with AsciiMath.. and someone has to do it first around my way, and if I don't no-one else is going to. Damned Teachers are so conservative..
Thanks Marc, I don't know if I will ever be able to draw a Java applet like that, but if I can do something to put the idea over, maybe someone else will do it better... Cheers..
I went and looked at the Geogebra site and wow.. do I know what I am doing there? Not a chance... but if I do not dive in, I do not think I am going to learn too much.... As long as I can retain my sanity that will be good. Same with AsciiMath.. and someone has to do it first around my way, and if I don't no-one else is going to. Damned Teachers are so conservative..
Thanks Marc, I don't know if I will ever be able to draw a Java applet like that, but if I can do something to put the idea over, maybe someone else will do it better... Cheers..
OK, downloaded and installed Geogebraand is a neat, uncluttered tool. There is a trick to saving things as an image, must be. The generation of Pstricks code is excellent, but Moodle does not like it even with Pstricks included as well as a number of other packages. Oh well.. AsciiMath next...
I know this is not easy, I wasn't expecting it to be but if I am in the position of having to train a dozen or more reluctant teachers, who think that Moodle is something they stepped on when they were playing with their dogs, is had better be a lot easier than this... (mmm I am not sure who is being more precious here.
.)
I know this is not easy, I wasn't expecting it to be but if I am in the position of having to train a dozen or more reluctant teachers, who think that Moodle is something they stepped on when they were playing with their dogs, is had better be a lot easier than this... (mmm I am not sure who is being more precious here.
.)
LOL, once you see tinyMCE with the Geonext button and automagical display via jsxgraph of inserted constructions you will be simply wowwed. see discussion here:http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=136075
geonext can be found here: http://geonext.uni-bayreuth.de/
and is an applet. We can invoke it just like dragmath, as a constructor, or embedded to handle existing graphs. Geonext outputs standard files which can be displayed on the fly by jsxgraph, so a student can open an regular online assignment, click on the geonext button in tinyMCE, create the construction and save in assignment, and when the teacher views the assignment the teacher sees the construction created.
I think Mauno had all this working together at some point in one of his demo sites and there is quite a bit of discussion through the Math Tools forum on using geonext and jsxgraph together in Moodle that you will find at the URL first cited above. Since Moodle 2 will likely require a Math plugin for tinyMCE I am thinking that it (the plugin for tinyMCE) may actually be ready long before Moodle 2 is fully production ready. Mauno?
geonext can be found here: http://geonext.uni-bayreuth.de/
and is an applet. We can invoke it just like dragmath, as a constructor, or embedded to handle existing graphs. Geonext outputs standard files which can be displayed on the fly by jsxgraph, so a student can open an regular online assignment, click on the geonext button in tinyMCE, create the construction and save in assignment, and when the teacher views the assignment the teacher sees the construction created.
I think Mauno had all this working together at some point in one of his demo sites and there is quite a bit of discussion through the Math Tools forum on using geonext and jsxgraph together in Moodle that you will find at the URL first cited above. Since Moodle 2 will likely require a Math plugin for tinyMCE I am thinking that it (the plugin for tinyMCE) may actually be ready long before Moodle 2 is fully production ready. Mauno?
Well... those posts were from October 2009 and we had some pre-version of moodle 2 then and a different version of moodle 2 now (almost beta) - during the last year I have been ready to throw in the towel while waiting the stable version of moodle 2 with the latest version of tinymce. YUI2 has partly changed to YUI3, JQuery is now in version 1.4.2 (UI 1.8.2), JSXGraph seems to be in 0.81, DragMath 0.7.8.2, Google Chart API supports now officially mimetex style TeX, IE9 (with coming svg support) is in Preview 2 and so on.
And I have not found motivation to upgrade my plugindemo site since last December/January...to avoid unnecessary work before "stable moodle 2" release...
I must say that Lehrstuhl für Mathematik und ihre Didaktik / Universität Bayreuth - Alfred, Matthias and others in http://jsxgraph.uni-bayreuth.de/wp/documentation/the-team/ and GeoNeXT group and other projects http://did.mat.uni-bayreuth.de/ have done amazing job with all those applets and scripts. Like Dragmath they will make using of Maths online a lot easier than it has been so far - both for students and teachers.
Marc,
I just dredged up those moodle 1.9.6 files from last October and both tinymce and htmlarea versions of geonext plugins can use the latest code. Bayreuth scripts had just splitted Geonextreader to separate file GeonextReader.js
So you are right - the plugins for adding Geonext code from applet to editor and moodle are in fact usable already. The only main issue is how to use that code - in current 1.9 version code is added with filter tags (with separate jsxgraph filter) that should be upgraded to moodle 2.0 filter.
I will upgrade my files during the weekend, upgrade plugindemo site and create the first moodle 2.0 demo package next week...
I just dredged up those moodle 1.9.6 files from last October and both tinymce and htmlarea versions of geonext plugins can use the latest code. Bayreuth scripts had just splitted Geonextreader to separate file GeonextReader.js
So you are right - the plugins for adding Geonext code from applet to editor and moodle are in fact usable already. The only main issue is how to use that code - in current 1.9 version code is added with filter tags (with separate jsxgraph filter) that should be upgraded to moodle 2.0 filter.
I will upgrade my files during the weekend, upgrade plugindemo site and create the first moodle 2.0 demo package next week...
Mauno,
do you even want to mess w/1.9? Don't get me wrong, in that the mass of moodlers I think won't move to M^2 for months and it would be nice to have such tools in 1.9, but knowing how much work it might entail and your past concerns, should we just focus on M00dle 2?
Petr has yet to finish with dragmath in v2 and with rush to release I wonder if that will get done. But one way or another based on his decision that access to dragmath available only w Tex filter turned on math in v2 will still need some tweaking, and I am wondering whether a math filter that is a drop in replacement for Tex that does all maths is not the best way to go....
do you even want to mess w/1.9? Don't get me wrong, in that the mass of moodlers I think won't move to M^2 for months and it would be nice to have such tools in 1.9, but knowing how much work it might entail and your past concerns, should we just focus on M00dle 2?
Petr has yet to finish with dragmath in v2 and with rush to release I wonder if that will get done. But one way or another based on his decision that access to dragmath available only w Tex filter turned on math in v2 will still need some tweaking, and I am wondering whether a math filter that is a drop in replacement for Tex that does all maths is not the best way to go....
Administration of editor plugins (and possible user preferences) is the missing part of moodle 2.0 I have been waiting during the past year...in 1.9 plugindemo site I used filter for that site wide math plugins selection but in moodle 2.0 it should be possible to choose plugins from settings of editor (which are not yet implemented).
Current moodle 2.0 themes can use also a new file - settings.php - that gives us theme based settings that can be changed from administration menu so we have some possible workarounds if default settings are too "inconvenient" ...
Hi Marc, I have been trying to track the TinyMCE install and integrate, but getting nowhere. It is just not making sense. (It could be one of the "toos", too cold, too late, too early in the year.) I have a number of files about integration but it is just not working.. duh... bed time...
Marc,
I have the tinymce version of Geonext plugin (for 1.9.x) now almost ready - it is even able to edit the the added geonext strings using a "triangle method" where a filter converts jsxgraph/geonext tags to script tags and shows the actual jsxgraphs with geonext strings - tinymce plugin changes those tags to img tags in editor screen and alt tag is holding the geonext string so that the img can be selected and edited in plugin that opens applet popup with given string and saves it back as jsxgraph/geonext tags. Still a little work to be done but Firefox and Chrome can already do this, IE is buggy like always and the latest versions of Opera/Safari have some problems in opening applets in a tinymce popup...
Once I have uppgraded the rest of plugins you will be able to test the plugins online (on my plugindemo site) and download the test files - I will try to get it done at the latest on Friday.
HTMLArea can rest in peace now - I won't do a single change to core files anymore. Everything in math plugins can be controlled with extra files without overriding the core code of moodle with filters and theme files in moodle 1.9.X and extra settings in moodle 2.0
I am sure that HTMLArea will breath much easier resting in peace... knowing it will not be interfered with ever again.. OK, having got that off my chest...
I am struggling to implement TinyMCE into Moodle 1.9 . I am not sure I am going to go any further with it, seems a bit of a waste of time with v2.0 out soon. So I am just going to have o struggle along with what I got for a while yet. In the meantime, I cannot get a page, any page, to properly display in 2.0, let alone discover its TeX and Geogebra possibilities... . going to download the latest and install that...
OK, having got that off my chest...I am struggling to implement TinyMCE into Moodle 1.9 . I am not sure I am going to go any further with it, seems a bit of a waste of time with v2.0 out soon. So I am just going to have o struggle along with what I got for a while yet. In the meantime, I cannot get a page, any page, to properly display in 2.0, let alone discover its TeX and Geogebra possibilities... . going to download the latest and install that...
OK, did that and it is all good again. Went to my 1.9.9 and that is now working properly. It seems when I upgraded it did not like the change so I had to rewrite the paths to the latex, dvips and Image Magick converter. Dunno why...
Marc & Colin,
I am still waiting for the final editor settings implementation for moodle 2.0 (Petr has been busy during the last months)...but meanwhile you can have some fun with http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=151976&parent=665035#p666567
OK, I been and looked and have now installed the Asciimath and jsMath filters. I have downloaded your Plugin zip file Muano, and have gone through it, but hesitated at putting into my Moodle.
With what I have seen so far of the AsciiMath, I suspect that this is going to be a lot easier to sell to Teachers than TeX - certainly the limitations of TeX are more severe than I thought - it is hard to learn and while it is gonzo on text it just does not seem to handle images, graphs and shapes too well.
(There are so many different standards and expressions and methodologies and such, that I am experiencing a sensory overload..
)
Now I am starting to see the problem, and it is the same one that I have been seeing since getting involved with Computing. The jargon is so self-centred that there is an underlying assumption that if you need to know then you already know so therefore we can talk in such convoluted terms and you will naturally understand what it is we are talking about. Well, I am just a lower working class peasant who does not scrub up too badly and I have absolutely no idea what it is that you are talking about.
The AsciiMath "tutorial" is more a collection of "Look at me display my brilliance!" than it is helpful. For me, the bottom line is everything needs to be as simple as I can get it. It needs to be explaining things in such a way so that I can ask "How do I -" and the answer is going to be right there. This is for two reasons, firstly, this is going to be displayed to a bunch of Teachers.. previously described as being staid and sedate, and secondly, like most maths teachers, they are as thick as bricks. They may be brilliant at what they do, but anything new just throws them out.
Everything will have to be explained in words of one or two syllables or in maths symbology, or a mix of both preferably.
Any ideas on where I can get a translator?
With what I have seen so far of the AsciiMath, I suspect that this is going to be a lot easier to sell to Teachers than TeX - certainly the limitations of TeX are more severe than I thought - it is hard to learn and while it is gonzo on text it just does not seem to handle images, graphs and shapes too well.
(There are so many different standards and expressions and methodologies and such, that I am experiencing a sensory overload..
) Now I am starting to see the problem, and it is the same one that I have been seeing since getting involved with Computing. The jargon is so self-centred that there is an underlying assumption that if you need to know then you already know so therefore we can talk in such convoluted terms and you will naturally understand what it is we are talking about. Well, I am just a lower working class peasant who does not scrub up too badly and I have absolutely no idea what it is that you are talking about.
The AsciiMath "tutorial" is more a collection of "Look at me display my brilliance!" than it is helpful. For me, the bottom line is everything needs to be as simple as I can get it. It needs to be explaining things in such a way so that I can ask "How do I -" and the answer is going to be right there. This is for two reasons, firstly, this is going to be displayed to a bunch of Teachers.. previously described as being staid and sedate, and secondly, like most maths teachers, they are as thick as bricks. They may be brilliant at what they do, but anything new just throws them out.
Everything will have to be explained in words of one or two syllables or in maths symbology, or a mix of both preferably.
Any ideas on where I can get a translator?