Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
It's unnecesary from a developer perspective because we can write software with the same functionality without forcing the user to use closed software.
It's unnecesary from a user perspective because, except for video, most of the Flash in the web is just clutter. I've heard there's a 64 bit flash plugin now, but it's pretty recent and incomplete. I know a lot of users of 64 bit linux who only missed flash for youtube and similar video sites.
I'm the maintainer of a little plugin showing video (currently with flowplayer), and using html5 was in my TODO list, so this discussion is greatly welcome. Everybody, please post if you opt for any of the alternatives mentioned!
Regards
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
Fact: Actionscript 3.0 is open source. There's a wide choice of authoring tools and compilers of which some are closed source and some are open source.
Another fact: Open source Flash player: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnash
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
What I don't understand is, rather than telling Matt not to implement Flash, why not the other party implement a HTML5 competitor?
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
I agree, there are many parties involved.
> What I don't understand is, rather than telling Matt not to implement Flash, why not the other party implement a HTML5 competitor?
Nicolas and Stuart have come with practical solutions that do not force a solution onto user.
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
> I agree, there are many parties involved.
Yes, that was one of the main reasons. It was MS against the free world. ECMA, various ISO commities ware just working for them, I have first hand experience in SNV, the Swiss branch. Money rules
>> What I don't understand is, rather than telling Matt not to implement Flash, why not the other party implement a HTML5 competitor?
> Nicolas and Stuart have come with practical solutions that do not force a solution onto user.
Glad that, this is sorted out. Let there be a Flash-version and a HTML5-version and leave the choice to the learned users.
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
+1 especially after reading the free excerpt of the latest Forrester report
http://www.forrester.com/rb/Research/does_html_5_herald_end_of_ria/q/id/56768/t/2
Will HTML 5 make rich Internet application (RIA) technologies such as Adobe Flash/Flex and Microsoft Silverlight obsolete? For at least the next five years, the answer is a definite "no"; inconsistent implementations of the draft HTML 5 specification and immature tooling make building HTML 5 apps that work consistently across browsers and operating systems a real challenge. Furthermore, this "either/or" scenario is driven only by vendor politics, not by developer realities. Ultimately, HTML 5 and RIA platforms will be complementary technologies, and enterprise development shops will need to invest in both approaches to deliver expressive applications that combine reach and richness.
Cheers.
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
At the moment and for the last decade or so, everyone's been falling over themselves to create interactive learning applications in Flash. Admittedly, many authorware programs publish Flash apps. that are big and slow and don't do anything that you can't do with HTML and Javascript but is that a problem with Flash or the authorware?
It's relatively quick and easy to develop very subtle and intricate interactions between users and apps. that add greatly to their learning experiences. I've yet to see anything approaching this level of interactivity in any other web based technologies that don't involve plugins of one kind or another. The only stuff I've seen that even approaches it are slow, heavy Javascript apps. such as Google Maps, which runs much more quickly and smoothly in Flash and allows far more flexibility and possibilities by the way, and Google Wave which slows down even my fairly powerful PC.
If we want ALL the bells and whistles, I'm afraid plugins, which are getting better and more efficient all the time, are here to stay for the foreseeable future.
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
Seriously, what are we talking about?
a) Which is "better" Flash or HTML5?
b) Which is technically superior (features/ressources)?
c) Which politically better (propriotory, vendor lock-in, open, free, sustainable, ...)?
d) does Moodle want give its users the choice (even to be non-free if they wish)?
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
For example, most of us are familiar with the Flash application which should have been a normal web page, complete with no bookmark support, no back button support, tiny text that doesn't respond to the normal resize options, and horrible scrollbars that don't work properly.
Add to that the fact that most people are familiar with Flash's audio/visual capabilities mainly through adverts...
Personally, I don't get that worked up about Flash any more, but that's probably partly because I have the FlashBlock plugin installed! So I only see Flash when I want to - I don't get it forced on me. As a result, I only get annoyed when there is content I want which is only available in Flash.
Right now on a practical level Flash is still the #1 most reliable single way to play video. And I don't like horrible JavaScript hacks (if you have an iPhone then we'll use HTML5, or if you have Safari, but not if you have Firefox, where it doesn't work because Apple won't support the open-source format so instead we'll generate an alternative video format, or in Internet Explorer, there we'll use Flash again, or if there's an R in the month, then we'll install an entirely new javascript framework to download a java applet which might - just MIGHT - actually play the damn video).
So, while I certainly want html5 video tag to actually work with a single video & audio format that is high quality and is supported in all common browsers (preferably also an open = patent-free format that can be generated using free tools), wishes aren't ponies, and right now, meh, we'll have to keep using Flash.
--sam
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
I'm with you on this. I think browser plugins that block Flash are wonderful too! I'd rather blame the sponsored content business model and advertisers than the medium for the annoying adverts though, the same deal with TV. If there wasn't Flash, it'd be some other medium and sometimes is (That's why I also like the NoScript Javascript blocker plugin).
I also understand the dismay at Flash websites that really should be HTML. I'm with everyone on that too. I too, think that there is a lot of misuse of Flash and developers often do "clever" stuff just because they can. I don't think this is limited to Flash though.
Regarding accessibility, like HTML, Flash supports accessibility but it does require a little extra work by developers so I can see how a lot of sites and apps are a nightmare for users with disabilities.
Regarding browser controls and the back button, Flash also supports this (called "deep linking") but again, it requires some extra work on the part of developers.
I guess in the race to meet deadlines at the lowest possible cost, developers won't include essential features that they consider as superfluous or optional. Perhaps the accessibility laws in various countries need to be tightened for the very significant sections of our societies who stand to benefit most from web access.
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
This and its predecessor, the FLV Player, have been very popular. I've done searches on Google for the module help pages and they're installed on a wide range of university, college, school and business Moodle sites. It's a one-stop solution for the majority of course content developers' needs for using multimedia as a learning resource and it's relatively easy for non-technical staff to deploy some very complex features.
If IE, Safari, FF, et al agreed on a web standard, and we assume that content developers had no problem transcoding video files into the proscribed CODEC and container without serious file degradation and leaving "artefacts" in the streams, how easy do you think it would be to implement similar features as this (see the demos) in HTML5?
Flash also supports multi-touch so it doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to see how this can help with accessibility, e.g. scalable graphics for menu buttons for the visually impaired, touch for assistance, less of a reliance on tabbing, etc. : http://theflashblog.com/?p=1975
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
You can read more about what he did on our blog here:
http://blog.liip.ch/archive/2010/06/21/the-quest-for-accessible-flash-part1.html
and here:
http://blog.liip.ch/archive/2010/06/21/the-quest-for-accessible-flash-part2.html
I know this is a gratuitous plug, but I was totally impressed with it, and it definitely proves that Flash *can* be accessible.
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
Also, the Flash source file format has changed from the binary FLA format to XML (XFL) with CS5 so it's more open to editing across different IDEs and compilers than ever before. It's also handy for doing search and replace across large numbers of projects: http://theflashblog.com/?p=1986
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
However I stand by my point that Flash isn't open. I wasn't aware that Flash had switched to XML formats for it's project files, but at the end of the day the only people who control Flash's formats is Adobe. If they decide to change the format of Flash files from one version of the Creative Suite (or Player!) to the next, they can, in exactly the same way Microsoft have changed formats between versions of Office in the past.
By contrast, HTML5 is an open W3C standard which while it may evolve over time, won't change on the whim of one company once the standard is defined.
None of that really has anything to do with Moodle, but it clarifies my position somewhat
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
I don't think there's a fundamental performance problem but, for example, it may be that current decoder hardware in system-on-chips such as those used in all smartphones and mobile devices cannot be used to decode Theora; or that it's harder to use it that way. The current decoder certainly has an Intel-optimised build, but similarly, it may need work to optimise it to run on the ARM processors used in all mobile devices. I'm speculating here but - wait, let's follow the write-speculation-first-look-it-up-later approach - oh look, I'm right. See this article about investment in an ARM-based codec. Some of this may be responsible for Apple's stance; they wouldn't want to support a format that their money-spinning mobile devices can't play, can't play well, or that forces a significant decrease in battery life on those devices.
As for Flash being 'open', I agree control of the format is one important way to consider this, but not the only one. W3C these days requires interoperable implementations by three different suppliers before something is considered final, right? If at some point in future there are a couple other people making Flash players, at least one of which is open-source, and all of which (a) reliably play the vast majority of Flash content including all the 'major names', and (b) keep pace with Flash updates, then Flash will indeed start looking a lot more open.
Flash fans shouldn't worry too much that their preferred system is considered not to be truly open. Java isn't even considered truly open, despite the vast majority of Java code being released as open-source, despite many alternative implementations, and despite that Sun/Oracle put 'Open' into the name of the product... (Oh, and the Java virtual machine/class format was 'open', to the extent of being published in a book, since version 1.0 or before, but...)
--sam
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
"IE9 promises to support HTML5, the next-generation standard for coding web pages, which aims to reduce the need for software plug-ins, such as Flash.
Apple remains a key rival for Microsoft in the browser market and it has seen its Safari browser gain market share but the two rivals are united when it comes to supporting the HTML5 web standards.
Apple sees HTML5 - along with other technologies such as the h.264 standard for video - as a replacement for Flash and has been involved in a high-profile spat with Flash owners Adobe.
Apple has banned the video standard Flash on many of its products."
Is the top technology news http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10095730.stm and even linked from the main page http://news.bbc.co.uk !
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
AFAIK, for the foreseeable future, there isn't any web alternatives to Flash, Java and Silverlight in browsers for all the other things they can do. What about web conferencing, VoIP, shared desktops and whiteboards, real time interactive 3D modelling, speech recognition, etc. that are currently being done on these platforms? Are we going to see practical, effective alternative HTML5 implementations of these?
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
Matt,
that day may not be so far as you (and many others?) seem to believe (year 2022)
Since the day when people in Microsoft started to support ideas of HTML5 everything changed and we will see the new IE9 soon supporting most features of HTML5 like all other modern browsers. Read the latest articles from http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/
Dean Hachamovitch from MS said it actually well:
"The future of the web is HTML5."
"...Despite these issues, Flash remains an important part of delivering a good consumer experience on today’s web."
Some people live always in the past, some in the future and most people try to find the balance between the past and the future.
Most likely we will see practical or at least demo versions of all of those applications you mentioned before the end of this year.
There is no good reason why HTML5 could not do the same things as flash in modern browsers - HTML5 can do a lot more...
Some people will use IE6 even in 2022 and flash will always be available for current browsers (as a downloadable plugin).
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
That slide show was done in 2009 - and for HTML5 http://caniuse.com/ it was "Far past"
Quite many things have changed during 2009-2010...and will change during the coming years.
Chrome 5 supports already 90% of currently displayed HTML5 features and other browsers will follow - if you check any mobile phone company pages the same trend can be seen in mobile browsers before the end of this year.
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
I hope that HTML5 support will encourage more users towards better web browsers too.
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/07/08/1943208/Firefox-4-Beta-1-Shines-On-HTML5
Re: Developer announcement: Flash vs. HTML5 - Please read this
Found in /. http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/03/12/1412234/Investigating-the-Performance-of-Firefox-4-and-IE9